2599 Reasons to love your Wheel Horse

[Bill D 1,923]

This picture says it all.

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

Are those toro’s?

[wallfish 17,011]

Maybe for all 6 of them

[Bill D 1,923]

Troy built.

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

Close enough the both start with a T

[WHGuy413 2,695]

No thanks. I will stick with my horses.

[johnnymag3 2,520]

UGH...what a shame

 

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,324]

  I swear that a few years ago ( before Covid) those RER’s were like $899! 

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

2599 apples to me I guess cuz some or most of you know I got mine for free from my grandparents so that’s 2599 less that that hunk of junk technology 

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

No rust no likey 

[Moonshine*Connoisseur 435]

I am a technician at a tractor dealer,  one of these came in to have the transmission drive belts replaced. What a circus it is to change them out on these. Yes they are cheaply made. The Briggs engines that they put on these, if I were briggs I'd be embarrassed to put my name on that. Kohler and Briggs are just a faded picture of what they used to be sadly.   Kawasaki and Honda engines are what you want these days. As far as a lawn mower goes or a garden tractor, please for the love of god, hold on to those Wheel Horses. 

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

Oh you bet I’m sticking to a horse rather than crappy new stuff 

[Bill D 1,923]

34 minutes ago, Sparky said:

  I swear that a few years ago ( before Covid) those RER’s were like $899! 

I think you're right.  Crazy.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

33 minutes ago, Moonshine*Connoisseur said:

Briggs engines that they put on these,

 

Taryl calls them "Breaks n' Scrap'em"

 

 

[Achto 27,597]

59 minutes ago, Sparky said:

I swear that a few years ago ( before Covid) those RER’s were like $899! 

 

This was before every company had to increase their starting wage significantly just to get new hires to apply for work.

[sergeant 291]

A little food for thought

 

Who's still around? and who Not still around?.

 

Troy-Bilt is still around  Not saying there of the same quality that they were before 2001  But it is still around as a Brand

 

Wheel Horse has been gone 15 years now

 

While I love my 416H (great Garden worker) and want to add more

 

By the 1990s there ergonomics for the 300,400 and 500 series was a Little Behind the times, most other brands were going away from the saddle Mount to a semi saddle Mount operator's station in the early 1990s and there Turn Radius were getting tighter.  Toro did try with the 250, 260,270 4XT and 5Xi. though, the 5Xi was still a semi saddle Mount Operator's station when it came out In 1997 and stayed that way until,the end of the line.  The 4XT also kept the semi saddle Mount till the end, while most other manufacturers had gone to a walk through frame design, so Toro seemed to be one step behind the Market. Not saying they were Not Good Machines But Toro seemed to be slow, and it May have helped Toro decided to get out of the residential Line do to Lower sales because of some of the ergonomic they continued with when the Market had again passed them up.

 

Cub Cadet had some of the same Issue with their 3000 series, 3000 series came out In the Late 1990s and was geared toward competing against the Ergonomic that came out in the early 1990s, and they chugged along when their main competitions Deere and Simplicity Had already gone to a 540RPM rear PTO In the 1990s and had added Limited Cat 1 3point Hitches in the early 2000s to their top of the line Garden tractors

 

Sometime I wish another Manufacturer Had bought Wheel Horse in 1986 as they Might still be around today as a Brand! 21 years and Toro Kicked them to the wayside. a Little Improvement On the 5Xi series Like Maybe a 540RPM PTO,a limited Cat 1 3point, Diff/lock & or 4WD I bet they could have given there competitors a run for there Money again Kind of wish they would have sold the Wheel Horse Line Instead of just folding the Line Always though Wheel Horse had one of the best Cutting decks in the business  and greatly Improved Under Toro Not that it needed much always. Though the clevis lift was a Little to short in lift height compared to other Manufacturers Integral or sleeve Hitches

 

 

BTW the MSRP on the Troy-Bilt is $1,799.00

[ri702bill 8,327]

Run Forest !!!!

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

The reason why I like old stuff is because it’s quality and wheel horse is quality! Who here thinks TORO should bring back the wheel horse line of toro’s back to life 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

15 hours ago, Sparky said:

  I swear that a few years ago ( before Covid) those RER’s were like $899! 

Sigh... you aren't wrong.

 

BUT... for even more context... pre-pandemic... you could really buy a low end JD zero turn for that...

 

Don

[Moonshine*Connoisseur 435]

On 9/7/2022 at 10:18 AM, The Freightliner Guy said:

The reason why I like old stuff is because it’s quality and wheel horse is quality! Who here thinks TORO should bring back the wheel horse line of toro’s back to life 

I've chatted a time or two with our Toro rep who's been with the company since early 80's. He remembers the acquisition of Wheel Horse. Worked with the engineers and I envy his experiences and expertise with the Wheel Horse brand. I always throw the comment in about bringing the horses back. He says and I quote " Wheel Horse was an excellent and dependable product and I personally love those tractors and wish they were still available. But in today's market, to make a tractor of that caliber would not be cost effective and people would not pay for something like that. People want recyclable throw aways."  This is much like the Gravelys and Simplicitys, not even a shadow of what they once were. Just a name thrown on a flimsy stamped piece of cheap steel, hoping to fool buyers into purchasing the products based on a trusted name known for many years.  Well I'll tell ya what, it's only gonna go so far. 

[wallfish 17,011]

It's better to burn out than fade away.

It would be a shame to see new plastic unreliable Wheel Horse tractors made in China. I for one am glad the name still represents quality

 

Can you imagine the questions coming in on the forum about them! LoL

"My 2017 vintage WH xc321-89OwQ66535 - 20  tractor stopped running. I heard a loud bang and there was a big puff of smoke right before it stopped. How do I change the oil to make it run again"?

[The Freightliner Guy 1,327]

That’s why I love old rusty stuff cuz it’s built tough 

[tunahead72 2,424]

3 hours ago, Moonshine*Connoisseur said:

... People want recyclable throw aways." ...

 

But do they/we really?  Or is this just something the manufacturers tell us to justify what they intend to provide for us anyway, to satisfy their own goals?

 

I have no idea, I'm just a guy observing life and asking questions.

 

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

@tunahead72 a bit of both probably.

Most people want things cheap and want it preferrably yesterday.

The other thing I see around here is that people would rather spend $1000 to $4/5/6000(?) on a vacation than on a lawnmower for example. And when they háve to buy a lownmower it's moving more and more towards those robot-thing-a-ma-bobs. Ain't nobody got time to do boring stuff like mow the lawn. Snow? You ask? Was dat? 

[sergeant 291]

Well, several Years ago I was working On a Book on Lawn, Garden, 2 Wheel and Compact tractors (shelved until I finally retire for the 3rd time)  and did several Interviews with personnel from Toro .  The reason I was told the Brand was dropped was Poor sales In its Last 5 years of Production. While the commercial Line was taking the lead in the residential Maintenance. The Zero turn was Taking More of their residential sales, So In 2007 after They ended the classic the Dealers were still a Little worried Not Having a Traditional tractor could hurt them and Toro Contracted MTD to Make Toro Tractors. But sales were Poor, But they produced them Until the end of the contract with MTD.   And some of the reasons I stated earlier, That was a common theme I got from with Ariens and Gravely as well, was Lower sales On their Tractors In North America.

The Hydrostatic really Killed Gravely. People Just didn't want and all gear drive by the Mid 1990s, Nor did The Maintenance departments for commercial Properties. The Zero turn was More common for mowing duties, if needed they Could Buy Compact's for snow & Landscaping duties.  Of the 20 Plus Interviews I have done with different Manufacturers , that was the common theme with Many of the Manufacturers that use to Make Lawn & Garden tractors that are either gone now or they Produce Zero turns today, and It was the engineering staff changes that also changed the direction.

  The engineers that had built, and designed Tractors were retiring and the New engineering Managers who had not really had a Background In the residential Line Machines Lawn & Garden tractors had pushed these companies in other directions. Most of it had to do with sales Numbers, The 5XI and 4XT never really had High sales Numbers By 2004. Had the sales number Been, higher, their Wheel Horse Line would Have probably continued For several more years

 People were not just buying throw away models either, they Were Buying from a competitor do to the competitor's machines Having More Versatility. It was some of the feedback Toro was getting from dealers that sold Multiple Brands, as Toro was never too picky about their dealers selling other Brands. The Wheel Horse dealers around Me for example 1 sold Wheel Horse, Cub Cadet, Ariens, Gravely and Had sold Bolens & Troy-Bilt The 2 other Major Wheel Horse dealers sold Deere. One of those dealers, Deere Had always outsold Wheel Horse from the Mid 1980s Forward even with Wheel Horse's Lower Price Tag's for their 300, 400 & 500 series Hydraulic Power steering was a Big consideration In the 1990s as it was becoming More common in the Lawn & Garden tractor Industry and Tighter Turn radius was also becoming something the consumer wanted. The 240, 250 & 260 did have that Tighter Turn radius. But the 300, 400 & 500 series was considerably Large at 32 Inch except for the 500 series which Brought It In 4 Inches.  But it was Large compared to the average of 25 Inches for some of their competitors

 

1990 520H was $5,999.00 at MSRP a John Deere 318 was $6,149 so for $150 more, you got a slightly More Capable tractor. That had accessories available like 2000RPM rear PTO, Cat 0 3point Hitch and OEM 44 Loader   Hydraulic or Mechanical tiller Options, Mid or rear PTO Mowing decks You still had some of those Options for the 300, 400 & 500 series But they were More Limited to sleeve Hitch Implements and a Kwik-way Loader. Lack of Power steering was a common complaint that Toro Had gotten through the 1990s before the 5Xi had come out Ariens, Cub Cadet, Deere, Gravely, Kubota, Troy-Bilt/Bolens, Ingersoll  & Ford(Shibaura) Had the Power steering Options for at least some of their Models 

 New Holland Had considered dropping Toro for their GT series production in 2000/2001 and finding another Manufacture or Going Back to Shibaura for it as they had wanted something More In Line with the Simplicity Legacy or the John Deere 425 through 455 at the time, But do to some contract negotiations with Toro they stayed with Toro Until 2007 as well. and decided at that Point to drop the Yard and Garden tractors instead of finding another Manufacturer to Build  Machines for them under the New Holland Label

With the Introduction of the New Holland Sub Compact. New Holland Marketed their Sub Compact as a Garden tractor and Not really a Small Utility Tractor and even today that what they Market their Sub Compact as a Garden tractor More than a Utility tractor. Massey Ferguson does the same with their Sub Compact, Marketing it as More of a Garden tractor

 

My Favorite Wheel Horse Attachments  36-inch Tiller , Mid Mount grader Blade, Front Mount Mowing deck  and the 48inch Front Dozer Blade . I really love the Narrow width of the Wheel Horse  especially the Pre Black Hood C's  and B's  as I have always found them to Be Great Tractors for Garden work  with a cultivator  and Even great at Plowing snow . Thought I have no Luck at finding those attachments close to home.  Have to always Travel if I want any of them as I swear everyone Holds On to there wheel Horse Implement around me 

 

I own 6 Cub Cadet Garden tractors(4 IH made and 2 MTD Made), 5 John Deere Garden tractors and 1 John Deere compact, 1 Ingersoll Garden tractor, 1 White Garden tractor and 1 Wheel Horse Garden tractor , 1 Deere Made Sabre Lawn Tractor, 1 Cub Cadet rear engine rider and 1 Simplicity Wonder Boy rear engine rider. Plus 1 Cub Cadet Steering wheel Zero turn  or 16 tractors and 2 Rear engine riders & a Zero turn. 5 Machines will be Trailer queens eventually.

 

Of the Manufacturers of Lawn & Garden tractor On the Market today  There are still many quality well Made Machines Simplicity, Cub Cadet XT3  & Deere. Deere May sell Lower cost Models at the Box stores since the the 1990's(Sabre & Scott's Not Just 100 series)  But they sell a Lot of the Premium Line as well  of the X300, X500 and X700 . The Deere X700 is still selling very well even with the 1023E and 1025R Sub Compact's On the Market  my Youngest son is actually a Deere design engineer at the Deere Horicon Works. They May have Xenoy Hoods  But  Deere Has Never used a metal Hood On there Lawn & Garden tractors  and a Metal Hood is Not a Good standard to measure the quality of a Garden Tractor by anyways. The One thing Deere really beats and for the most Part has always beat competition By is the Support for Old Machines with Factory Made Parts  You can still get Gasket Kits for 100 year Old Waterloo Boy Tractors  from Deere. Ariens Is good with accessories for there Garden tractors as You Can still get a Cat 0 3point Hitch Kit and they Have been Out of the Garden tractor Game for over 20 years 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by sergeant