Recommend HUB Set Screw Update

[Willie 14]

If I could make one engineering change to the new C120s shipping today it would be this. Firstly, I use only 100% WH parts, I don’t believe in changing anything, except this one. The wheel hub set screws and jam nuts on the Horse’s rear axle need this update. Go to your local Hillman reseller like Lowes and buy 2 x 1 inch 3/8"- 16 STAINLESS STEEL SOCKET CAP SCREWS (like these pictured) and matching Stainless jam nuts. They are easier to remove and torque and they hold on to your Woodruff key no matter it’s condition. I strongly recommend these. 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Willie

[oldlineman 1,481]

Very good idea , but in my experience with stainless nuts and bolts they will and do gauld to each other, so use your favorite anti seize.

[pacer 3,168]

I will generally pull the hubs just on general principle - even if they are tight, just for insurance (cause they gonna get loose at SOME point!!)  I go back with grade 8 bolts and starting with the key at 12 oclock, I also add 2 more set screws at 4 and 7 oclock with lock nuts, grinding a small flat spot where the bolt meets the axle.

[pfrederi 17,653]

Are the Hillman bolts cup point?  Ideally you want hardened alloy cup point set screw.  They will cut in to the key and into the axle for the second position.  (no need to grind a flat spot on the axle.

 

 

[doc724 925]

There are a lot of things available today that were not available in the 50's and 60's when these tractors were designed.  I always struggled with the square head set screws on axle hubs because you could not put enough torque on the 3/8 square head to bite into the key. One day I discovered that there are (were) 8 point sockets available for these square head bolts.  Sears used to carry them.  Apparently they were not big sellers and were discontinued.  I surfed around the internet and found a Craftsman set of these for $7, brand new.    Square head bolts and square nuts have gone the way of the Dodo and are now replaced by much more reliable Torx type fasteners and Nyloc or ESNA style lock nuts.  If you buy new hardware, I recommend you buy from a reliable industrial supply company.  It will cost you more but it is made to perform.

[lynnmor 7,302]

McMaster has the correct square head set screws, jam nuts and 8 point sockets.  Using stainless steel is fine for a trailer queen but for real work use the alloy steel fasteners.

[pfrederi 17,653]

I have no problem putting 35 ft-lbs on square head set screws...

[Willie 14]

Stainless steel bolts are rated for corrosion resistance. Bolt strength is rated in PSI. These stainless steel bolts have the same PSI rating as a grade 5 bolt (125,000 PSI). That’s good enough and the won’t rust.  Of course grade 8 are stronger, but for all the problems with the square head, I still think my stainless are superior.

[lynnmor 7,302]

13 minutes ago, Willie said:Of course grade 8 are stronger, but for all the problems with the square head, I still think my stainless are superior.

Problems, what problems?  They just work and the harder cup on the end bites in better.  Yes, the single screw hubs sometimes came loose and should be improved with a second screw.

[Willie 14]

I’ll run my stainless shown here and they’re better than the square heads; and the one set screw is all that’s needed. Two is a waste and overkill.  

[953 nut 55,049]

16 minutes ago, Willie said:

I’ll run my stainless shown here and they’re better than the square heads; and the one set screw is all that’s needed. Two is a waste and overkill.  

That may be your opinion and it is your hub. No one here is calling you out over this, we are trying to help you keep your in good running order. I don't think Wheel Horse went from one set screw to two because they wanted spend more money.

 

The owner manuals tell you to torque the set screw to 35 ft/lb and I don't think you are using a calibrated Allen wrench.

 

Jay @roadapples came up with a great solution for torqueing the set screws without buying an eight point socket. If you have a 3/8" drive Allen Wrench set (most of us do) you can place the square drive end of the 3/8' or 1/2" Allen Wrench over the square cup point set screw and use the appropriate size 6 or 12 point socket with your torque wrench on the Allen Wrench, this works well.   RIP, we miss you Jay.

[Ed Kennell 38,021]

Unbrako USA                             When I was purchasing high strength fasteners for the hydro turbine industry,   Unbrako was my go to co.

[Willie 14]

Reason they went to two set screws is one was holding, but they also didn’t have these Hellman stainless bolts. Don’t need two, waste of money.  

[Willie 14]

953nut, you said “we" — who elected you some authority? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about and if I want your opinion (which I don't) , I’ll ask you. I was just offering my opinion to the original square bolt and jam nut. I don’t think anyone here cares what you think.  You do whatever you want to.  

[Willie 14]

Unbrako makes the best!!!

[953 nut 55,049]

9 minutes ago, Willie said:

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about and if I want your opinion (which I don't) , I’ll ask you.

         I hope your attitude improves and whatever is troubling you resolves itself.     

[Moparfanforever 844]

15 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

         I hope your attitude improves and whatever is troubling you resolves itself.     

100% agree with you.

[wallfish 16,980]

52 minutes ago, Willie said:

953nut, you said “we" — who elected you some authority? I don’t think you know what you’re talking about and if I want your opinion (which I don't) , I’ll ask you. I was just offering my opinion to the original square bolt and jam nut. I don’t think anyone here cares what you think.  You do whatever you want to.  

For a fairly new guy your not one to make friends huh? This ain't facebook. When 953 said "WE" he meant the majority of members here. Jay (roadapples) was great long time member here and just recently passed away so WE are all still mourning his passing. 

That stainless fastener you have is weak and a waste of time! Stainless will deform the threads before it bites into that steel hard enough plus not having the cup tip like a set screw does it will not bite. This is my opinion and I'm giving it to you whether you ask or not!

Thanks for sharing

Edited September 4, 2022 by wallfish

[T-Mo-(Moderator) 4,496]

If you won't take advice given on this forum without offending and criticizing those who are giving advice, don't ask for advice.

 

I'm closing this thread, it's ran it's course and even gotten off course.