Paint Problems are driving me nuts

[rmaynard 15,509]

After several fails painting the rims on my 701, I finally stripped them, sandblasted them, and started over. I put down a nice coat of primer followed by 3 light coats of Rustoleum Shell White paint. Everything looked great except the high gloss looked a bit dull. So I got a can of Rustoleum Clear Gloss to use as a top coat. Following the printed instructions which read: "Apply top coat within an hour or after 48 hours". I waited 48 hours+ and applied the first coat of clear. Great. I waited a few minutes and applied the second coat. Great. Came back 15 minutes later and all the paint had crinkled and lifted. 

 

What the heck is going on? I've painted all my life and never had this happen when using and oil-based paint. I have had it happen using a lacquer-based top coat like Krylon, but never oil-based to oil-based. I'm ready to throw in the towel and take them somewhere to be powder-coated.

 

I've always been the guy with answers. Now here lately I've got nothing but problems and questions.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Yeah... sorry, but you can't believe the 'after 48 hours'.  It's just not long enough.  Especially with three coats of top coat.

 

I only paint 'wet on wet' anymore.  I only wait long enough for the previously applied coat to 'flash' before applying the next coats.

 

If you don't apply next coats within an hour (or LESS), I personally would wait AT LEAST a week before applying another coat.  

 

And... if you WET SAND in between and break the top surface 'shell', you should probably  wait even longer than that!

 

Wet on wet is where it's at with Rustoleum rattle cans.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

16 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

Rustoleum Clear Gloss

It's funny... I've never had luck with Rustoleum clear coats EXCEPT for this stuff. Once I transitioned to the below... I haven't had another problem... (don't ask me why)...

 

 

Don

[squonk 41,145]

I use Rutsoleum Almond and immediately after spraying the last color coat I spray a coat of Rustoleum Chrystal Clear Enamel. Then after 15 min. another coat of clear.

 

[pacer 3,173]

These guys are nailing it for you ---- 48 hrs just aint gonna get it!! @Jeff-C175 method is a great model to go by - Its The way I do it also.

[ri702bill 8,327]

And always do the paint can in the hot water trick - thins the paint, raises the rattle can's internal pressure, and it flashes faster than room temp... Just remember to wipe the can off before the next coat!  Shell White in the sauce pan!!

[rmaynard 15,509]

I was going to do the "immediate" recoat, but didn't have any clear. By the time I'd gotten some clear, my 1 hour window had closed. It's all good though. I'm done with paint (other than acrylic urethane). I'm having the wheels powder coated.

Edited September 3, 2022 by rmaynard

[c-series don 8,719]

I agree with everyone, 48 hrs is not enough time and neither is 72. I got so angry last time that I called Rustoleum and they said 72 hrs should be enough time. I told them it’s not! Then gave me a scientific explanation why this happened which I already forgot. I forgot what it was I was painting but it crinkled and I was furious and had to start over. Like Jeff said, it’s either wet on wet or wait a week. 

[953 nut 55,290]

6 hours ago, rmaynard said:

What the heck is going on? I've painted all my life and never had this happen when using and oil-based paint.

Humid days can sort of kill that rule of thumb. With less VOCs being used in today's paint curing times don't seem to work out well when humid. 

[Horse Newbie 7,072]

I had the wheels on the 520H sand blasted and powder coated…

Two main reasons…

1. Lots of sanding needed.

2. I wanted a hard finish.

 

I was so happy with them there was no doubt I was powder coating the wheels on the Work Horse…

[Darrenw85 618]

Bob,

I have all my wheels powder coated, I also have the frame, front axle, footrest and a few other parts powder coated too. The powder coat color for my wheels is porcelain white from prismatic powders. Here is the last one I restored. 

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

12 hours ago, rmaynard said:

having the wheels powder coated

Although the reason why might be aggravating I think you won't regret going this route. It just works very well.

One thing you might want to check is that you make sure the powder-coater uses a primer first before applying the color coat. As with paint this helps the powder stick.. 

[rmaynard 15,509]

I am convinced that the quality of today's spray paint has diminished due to all of the EPA regulations. 

All of my other tractors have had the wheels powder coated. These would have been done as well but for two reasons; 1. this is a project that I was trying to teach my grandson how to sandblast and paint  and 2. my local powder coater went out of business a couple of years ago. The color he used was Oyster White (RAL-1013)

 

 

[Heatingman 971]

Ive found Penetrol by Flood works pretty well as a clear coat, even over bare metal. At least for oil based from a brush can.

 

Also works very well as an additive. Helps the paint smooth out when spraying with a low quality gun, and works nicely to mix with the paint for doing brushwork, like touching up nicks from assembly .. etc…

 

Fairly cheap about 10 bucks for a quart.

 

Ive also found its what many rat-rod guys use to clear over “patina” aka rust.

[Heatingman 971]

Powder coating is good, but depending what product, may not be UV stable. 
 

Had some knack truck tool boxes powder coated some years ago, in IH red and the tops all turned white within a couple years.

 

When you get powder coating done, request UV stability- which may required a clear powder coat over the color coat.

Edited September 3, 2022 by Heatingman

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

@Heatingman I'm not sure this is a powdercoating specific thing. Red and especially 'flat' (non metallic) red paint is very prone to sun damage a.k.a. fading over time.

Several car manufacturers struggled with the same issue on their vehicles. And the fading can also be seen on (early) plastic tractor hoods and fenders.

The solution is the same though as you indeed mentioned, clear coat solves the issue 

[cod 120]

While the powder coating looks great, is it brittle or easily chipped?

 

I would think that changing a tire might become more delicate once you powder coat your rims. I've thought about doing the bottom of my mower deck in the hope that it would be more rust resistant and it would be harder for grass to stick.

[rmaynard 15,509]

20 hours ago, Heatingman said:

Ive found Penetrol by Flood works pretty well as a clear coat, even over bare metal. At least for oil based from a brush can.

 

Also works very well as an additive. Helps the paint smooth out when spraying with a low quality gun, and works nicely to mix with the paint for doing brushwork, like touching up nicks from assembly .. etc…

 

Fairly cheap about 10 bucks for a quart.

 

Ive also found its what many rat-rod guys use to clear over “patina” aka rust.

 

 

First of all, I do not cover rust. I remove it. Rust is like cancer. Anything you put on it is just a band-aid. 

 

I have used Penetrol in the past, but only when spray painting wood. I did not notice any disernable difference in flow or finish.

 

I know a lot of guys like that old rusty look they mistakenly call patina. I personally don't care for it.

[rmaynard 15,509]

2 hours ago, cod said:

While the powder coating looks great, is it brittle or easily chipped?

 

I would think that changing a tire might become more delicate once you powder coat your rims. I've thought about doing the bottom of my mower deck in the hope that it would be more rust resistant and it would be harder for grass to stick.

All rims today other than plain aluminum or alloy are powder coated because it is tougher and doesn't mar as easily when mounting or dismounting. Old rims like these Wheel Horse rims were baked enamel. That was the best they had at the time. 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:40 AM, rmaynard said:

1. this is a project that I was trying to teach my grandson how to sandblast and paint 

Look on the bright side:  a valuable lesson was learned nevertheless!

Speaking of lessons, I learned it’s advisable to grind down any weld nubs before taking items to the local powdercoater. He doesn’t do prep work other than sandblasting, and those surface irregularities can compromise the coating’s integrity.

Edited September 4, 2022 by EB-80/8inPA

[Heatingman 971]

1 hour ago, rmaynard said:

 

First of all, I do not cover rust. I remove it. Rust is like cancer. Anything you put on it is just a band-aid. 

 

I have used Penetrol in the past, but only when spray painting wood. I did not notice any disernable difference in flow or finish.

 

I know a lot of guys like that old rusty look they mistakenly call patina. I personally don't care for it.

Im with you on the patina. In places like California, you can get away with it. Here in the rust belt, its pure cancer. 
 

Constant battle to remove, treat, and prevent. 
 

Wood takes paint much differently then metal. Ive never tried it on wood.

 

Ive used it over bare - clean metal. Like old bolts after cleaning them up that I dont want to paint. Will seal surface for a time. 

[Horse Newbie 7,072]

4 hours ago, cod said:

While the powder coating looks great, is it brittle or easily chipped?

 

I would think that changing a tire might become more delicate once you powder coat your rims. I've thought about doing the bottom of my mower deck in the hope that it would be more rust resistant and it would be harder for grass to stick.

It would be way way more economical to POR-15 the bottom of your deck, and you can order a kit for around $25 off of the inter web…

 

Powder coating is more chip resistant than paint. It should hold up better on your wheels than paint. When the bottom of the deck gets a little dirty, GRASS WILL STICK no matter what it is coated with. I don’t know how powder coating was first used in industry, but I do know it was favored over paint for its better durability.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Horse Newbie

[ineedanother 1,369]

I believe Stihl has been powder coating their saws since about WWII (magnesium). If you ever attempt to strip it off one of those you'll be a believer in the durability although like anything else, there are various options for the quality of the materials but the technique is fairly standard. Cured with electric heat, not gas if you care to attempt it. 

[JimPortugul 2]

After going through the same thing you are now about  2 years ago, I loaded all 4 wheels in my car. I then drove to the powder coated and negotiated a $250 price to sandblast and powder coat. Avoided a nervous breakdown of sorts. Rattle can painting ain’t what it used to be. Wheels are beautiful. The power coater would not negotiate price but he agreed to do I believe it was the footboards  in red as part of the deal.

 

The other issue with rattle can paint is that it gets torn all to hell putting the tires on the rim. Powder coat does not. But, with purchasing new used rims, blast and powder coat, new tires, I have about $600 in wheels and tires. Putting liquid inside tires eventually turns them to rust. 

 

[rmaynard 15,509]

1 hour ago, JimPortugul said:

After going through the same thing you are now about  2 years ago, I loaded all 4 wheels in my car. I then drove to the powder coated and negotiated a $250 price to sandblast and powder coat.

 

Back in 2016, my powder coater closed up shop and only did his own race cars. It's a shame because he only charged me $50.00 to do all four wheels. That included sandblasting and coating.