Suburban, no 1st, 2nd, or 3rd...only reverse.

[mhlmeader 689]

Hi folks, got my Frankenstein suburban together, and I notice it seemed like the transmission was slipping, mostly when I was turning, not really up hills.  Seemed to progressively get worse, and finally just gave up, but I could still go in reverse.  I can shift into all gears, but only reverse will actually drive.  

 Tractor has new belt, I pulled the drive pulley and checked keyway, seemed good.  As you can see from pictures they have been some major modifications done to the axles, I I could not figure out how to pull the hubs off, no keyway in there that I can see.  

  This will be my first time opening up a transmission, any pointers, or what to look for would be greatly appreciated,  thanks...mike

[Pullstart 62,851]

If you put it in gear with it off, can you still roll it? What about pulling the shifter to determine the shape of the oil or what should be oil in there?

[Ed Kennell 38,170]

I doubt if even Garry will be able to find a manual for that.

[mhlmeader 689]

25 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

If you put it in gear with it off, can you still roll it? What about pulling the shifter to determine the shape of the oil or what should be oil in there?

Yes, you can still roll it in gear, wheels are off now, but I can spin the hubs but not get any rotation out of the drive pulley.....if I spin the drive pulley, the hubs will start to spin, but I can hold them still with my hand.  

  Earlier before it totally went kaput, I pulled the four bolts holding thr plate next to the axle tube, to see if/ how the spindle could be removed.....didn't see anyway it would come off. 

[mhlmeader 689]

Oh, and I did drain alot of mud, and put some fresh oil in.

[oliver2-44 9,747]

Who knows what’s in there, but with the original differential:

1. Hold 1 hub and turn the input pulley and the other hub should turn

2. Hold the other hub and repeat 

3. Turn the input pulley and both rear hubs should turn in opposite directions
3. check if your input pulley-shaft has much in/out movement. If it has any more than a tiny bit, repeat above while pushing input pulley inward. If you have a dial indicator measure/record this movement and you can put a shim under the input gear bearing to minimize this 

 

4 Skip 1 & 2 and use the time to start tearing it apart. Stevasarus has a good video on overhauling these 3 piece transmissions in the Instructional- Transmission section.  Yours may now be a 5 piece but I suspect disassembly will be similar

 

PS. We really want to see what/how someone modified that transmission. 
 

[squonk 41,104]

8 hours ago, mhlmeader said:

Oh, and I did drain alot of mud, and put some fresh oil in.

Bearings are probably shot. Differential pinons may be seizing up

[953 nut 55,223]

10 hours ago, mhlmeader said:

This will be my first time opening up a transmission, any pointers, or what to look for would be greatly appreciated

This should be interesting!  If I had to guess I would say someone with a welder and a lot of misguided information widened the rear axles by welding extensions to the side plates and welding extensions to the axle shafts, Probably one of those axle shaft extension welds is broken. 

Once @stevasaurus has finished his morning coffee he will probably dive in there, in the meantime here is a thread he did on this type of transaxle (minus the shade tree weld jobs).

 

[mhlmeader 689]

Thanks so far folks, gonna be a slow endeavor,  but I'm interested/hoping to see if I can fix it.  Been reading over some of the suggested post/videos. 

[mhlmeader 689]

Taking it apart.....and a big crack....

[Snoopy11 5,714]

MOTOsickles is a bit too dangerous fa' me... but THAT is a nice bike in the background...

 

Don

[mhlmeader 689]

9 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

MOTOsickles is a bit too dangerous fa' me... but THAT is a nice bike in the background...

 

Don

Thankyou Don, haven't ridden alot lately, too much wheel horsing,  but they are fun.

[mhlmeader 689]

Ok, think I found the major malfunction,  and please forgive my ignorance,  but is this big gear set the actual differential? And see all the little gears inside missing alot of teeth.  Not sure what those are called? 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

4 minutes ago, mhlmeader said:

Not sure what those are called?

Zee pinions are broken...

 

4 minutes ago, mhlmeader said:

is this big gear set the actual differential?

Indeed.

 

Don

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

I don't know the transmission number off the top of my head... so I can't offer any replacements... but that's beyond my pay grade anyway... (I'm an engine guy)...

 

Hopefully someone will come into this thread with replacement options. I'm confident that you can find replacement pinion gears on ebay, or perhaps a member of the forum has some.

 

Don

[cafoose 3,355]

I was thinking pinions when I read the symptoms I blew out my pinions pulling a little trailer

Post 83 in this thread:

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Hi.  Looks like you are missing a bolt (one of four) holding on the bull gear to the differential housing.  If it is floating around in your trans, that could be what broke off all of your teeth on the pinions in the differential.  Contact one of our vendors like Lincoln at A-Z Tractors.  Look in vendor section on main page.  

   Take some good pictures of all of your gears in there and show us.  We can see if anything else is bad.  If you need to replace any bearings, our vendor Lowell at WheelHorse Parts & More has them and seals and side gaskets.  Use 90wt gear oil (approx 2qts) to fill trans.  Your transmission is a 5010 Wheel Horse with some obvious modifications.  You also have the new differential (separate bull gear bolted to differential housing).  

   In the picture below...notice the pinions are up and then down and then up and then down,,,it is important to have them the way they are now so the bolt (holding the bull gear) does not interfere with the teeth of the pinion gears.  The top pinion in picture is missing the teeth on the right end...just so you know.  In other words, it those pinions were flopped, you would not be able to get that bolt in...teeth would be in the way.  

 

Obviously, we want to see what those axles are all about and what they used for the axle gear (the gear on the end of your axles that turns the differential pinions.

   One other thing...I think your pinions have 11 teeth (the 5010 trans).  The two piece 5025 Wheel Horse transmission differential pinions have 12 teeth.  The 12 tooth pinions will work in your trans, but you need all 4.  You can't mix them, need 4 of the same.  Good to know, if Lincoln does not have any 11 tooth pinions.  

Edited August 25, 2022 by stevasaurus

[mhlmeader 689]

Here's pictures.....

 

More to come.....

[mhlmeader 689]

[mhlmeader 689]

[mhlmeader 689]

Soooo, if I'm understanding this correctly,  I need to get four pinion gears(11 or12) tooth, mine are 12.....and I should be able to get them at a-z tractor?

And I need 2 axle gears that go into the differential housing aswell...any part numbers on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks for all your help folks!!!

 

 

[mhlmeader 689]

[953 nut 55,223]

7 minutes ago, mhlmeader said:

Soooo, if I'm understanding this correctly,  I need to get four pinion gears(11 or12) tooth, mine are 12.....and I should be able to get them at a-z tractor?

And I need 2 axle gears that go into the differential housing aswell...any part numbers on this stuff would be greatly appreciated.   Thanks for all your help folks!!!

 

 

With the amount of damage to other gears and components in there I would be looking for a complete trans axle. Scavenge the parts you need and and offer the other parts like side plates and axles for sale. What do you think @stevasaurus?

[mhlmeader 689]

This is how the axle gear were set up.....isn't this different than it should be?

[Racinbob 11,077]

2 hours ago, 953 nut said:

With the amount of damage to other gears and components in there I would be looking for a complete trans axle. Scavenge the parts you need and and offer the other parts like side plates and axles for sale. What do you think @stevasaurus?

 

I was going to stay out of this one at first but I couldn't agree more. Save anything good and find a replacement. That one has been messed with far too much.