More K301 questions... K301AS vs K301EP

[Handy Don 12,233]

9 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Yeah, you likely have to tear the gen head down to seperate it from the engine.

 

The last one I took apart had a foot-long bolt threaded in the end of the crank.

This was also my experience. At least the bolt had right-hand threads!

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

This was also my experience. At least the bolt had right-hand threads!

 

I'm still having a helluva time getting the rear cover off.  It must be corroded in place, should slide right off!

 

Can't do anything until I get that cover off.  No place to use a hammer to drive it off, can't get it to move enough to get a screwdriver in and pry it off... been soaking with penetrant, and whacking it with a dead blow hammer to try and break it free.  I'll figure something out, I always do!  Thinking about trying a slide hammer... drilling a few holes in the rear to grab a hold of with the hook.  Maybe that'll do it.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I had to resort to using the Dremel to cut a couple slits in the rear cover and fold back the metal so I could get a pry bar in and after doing that, it came right off.

The rest was pretty easy until I got to getting the armature off the tapered crank.  I cut a piece of all thread shorter than the through bolt, cut a slot for a screwdriver, threaded it into the crank threads.  Took a big-a55 bolt and threaded that into the threads in the end of the armature that they thoughtfully cut for the purpose (I believe most, if not all genny heads have those threads) so the bolt pushed on the all thread... tightened it down... didn't pop... whacked the end of the big-a55 bolt with a ball pein hammer a few times and it popped.

 

So now I gotta rig up my winch and lift the engine off the plate... and see what's on the bottom of the oil pan.

 

I had hoped to be able to use this genny head on a tractor mounted genny attachment, but it's not possible.  There's nothing supporting the engine end of the armature!  So it looks like it's going on the scrap pile to take to the recycler.  Should be worth maybe $20 or so...

 

ALSO... judging by the condition of the brushes and the slip ring in the head, this thing hardly got any use at all.  I'm pretty sure the engine will still have the hone marks on the cylinder bore.

 

Parts is parts...

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

As I expected, there are no bolt holes on the bottom of the pan.  

 

Here's another minor difference in the two blocks:

 

Notice that the EP block is milled all the way around in order to 'center' the bell housing:

 

And the AS block is not.  I'll need to fabricate a couple spacers (which could be as simple as a few flat washers) in order to mount the bracket for the PTO:

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:24 PM, kpinnc said:

only need to drill the two holes, not all four. The other side of the pan bolts through the existing tabs on the pan.

 

Which side needs the modification?  PTO or FLYWHEEL ?

 

[kpinnc 12,082]

4 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Which side needs the modification?  PTO or FLYWHEEL ?

 

PTO side bolts to the frame up through the bottom of the pan. 

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

21 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

ALSO... judging by the condition of the brushes and the slip ring in the head, this thing hardly got any use at all.  I'm pretty sure the engine will still have the hone marks on the cylinder bore.

Yep, some gennys get used to death, some get used very little.

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

19 hours ago, kpinnc said:

PTO side

 

Looks like I'll need to fabricate a bracket for the bottom of the PTO hoop since it's on the shaker plate which will go away.

 

 

 

I think I can use the existing bolt hole and that 'extra' one on the mid-mount hitch to attach a bracket to the frame.

 

What have others done in this situation?  Is there a bracket already made for this from WH?

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[kpinnc 12,082]

23 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Is there a bracket already made for this from WH?

 

Yes. I don't know the part number, but they are very common. Goes under the bolts in the belly hitch.

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

20 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

Yes. I don't know the part number, but they are very common. Goes under the bolts in the belly hitch.

 

 

 

I was just looking through the parts lists for non-shaker machines.  I think that is this #99, which is p/n 102870:

(edit: appears that the same basic part has a number of numbers!  22847, 22997, 18977 , at least according to ebay listings)

 

 

Easy enough to make one if I can't find one.

 

Since I'm a cheapskate, I'll make one.  Plenty available but around $20 or so.  Yeah, I'm that cheap! LOL!

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I've seen this thread a few times before but keep forgetting that it exists.  Posting it here for future reference:

 

 

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 hours ago, kpinnc said:

Yes. I don't know the part number, but they are very common. Goes under the bolts in the belly hitch.

 

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 if I can't find one.

Sorry I'm late Jeff, but I have one of those if you need it.

 

It's yours for the price of shipping. Shoot me an email if you want it...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Some pictures of what I have in stock for your pleasure, @Jeff-C175...

 

 

 

Don

[Heatingman 971]

On 8/23/2022 at 9:56 AM, Snoopy11 said:

I have argued that same thing for a long... LONG time now...

 

Seems that every time I say that splash lube engines DO NOT have to run at 3,600 all the time for lubrication... someone develops a hemorrhoid...

 

Don

I thought that was for the trans cooling. Not the motor. But, thats just based on stuff I read, likely here somewhere.

[peter lena 8,634]

@Heatingman  , my experience with those hi revs is make things work easier , when you think of the collective drag  on a mower deck , spindles / mule drive / deck drive pulleys , hear you on the hemorrhoid issue. while doing deck rebuilds , the obvious opportunity to virtually eliminate  that hot / heavy drag is easily changeable . while you are installing bearings , make them better , also improve the pto lever engagement set up . my decks spin up very easily , no screaming clutch , or whining bearings . pete  

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Package with your part will be in the mail tomorrow afternoon! 

 

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

52 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Package with your part will be in the mail tomorrow afternoon! 

 

 

Don

 

I thought you said a SMALL RockAuto box? LOL!

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I thought you said a SMALL RockAuto box? LOL!

It's small, it's like 6x4x5 inches... the camera just makes it looks biggah'

 

Don

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Yet another difference in the two blocks:

 

The EP engine has the dipstick on the cam gear cover on the front of the engine which would be inaccessible when the muffler is mounted.  I had planned to use the cover from the AS engine...  I suppose I could figure out a way to do something different with the exhaust.  Since the shaker plate will be gone, there's no place to bolt the bracket on the muffler anyway.  I'd have to fabricate a bracket for that.

 

 

And on the front of the block there is no provision for mounting the dipstick in the location on the front where the AS engine is.  I had hoped to find a blank plate there after I removed the starter... but noooooo...

 

Also, there's a plug in a tapped hole where the AS engine has none.  I could use that location for the dipstick and try to find the correct length (or modify the existing) dipstick.  I would need to find the correct tube (if one exists) (or make one) for that location.

 

I suppose I could also machine the block to accept the dip tube and stick from the old engine... sounds tedious to me.

 

 

Was it @Achto who suggested just rebuilding the old engine?  Looking more and more like a good idea at this point.  I still have the option of putting the generator back together ... didn't break anything ... yet!

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[squonk 41,145]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where that plug is is where most old Kohlers had the oil fill/dipstick. You could probably get that plug/stick from AZ Tractor.

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by squonk

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

46 minutes ago, squonk said:

dipstick

 

Although that would make it more trouble to check the earl level!

 

I did see a few of those on eBay as well.

[pfrederi 17,741]

If you go with eh screw dipstick Big block ones are different from small.  K301 used either 235320 8-7/8 " or 235747 8-3/32  K181s use 6-9/16 230097

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

29 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

If you go with eh screw dipstick Big block ones are different from small.  K301 used either 235320 8-7/8 " or 235747 8-3/32  K181s use 6-9/16 230097

 

Good info Paul, thanks!

 

Pretty sure I can make the rod in the pipe plug variety easily.

 

At the moment though, I'm thinking that I'll make a tube somehow and use the original stick, assuming of course that I can make it work with the tube I fabricate.