Snoopy11 5,714 #1 Posted August 8, 2022 Hello my good people! Lately... I have been wondering more about transmissions... (no, I'm not getting bored with engines...) but since I have various tractors... I have noticed various differences, and I would appreciate you guys' input on my question. So... the 800 Special has the Peerless transmission, the L-157 has the 4 pinion unidrive, and the 416 has the 8 speed. What I noticed: Say I want to go into 2nd gear... the Peerless machine has to be moved over less than an inch to go into gear... while the Unidrive in the L-157 has to be moved over a good bit more... and the 8 speed in the 416 has to be moved WAY over to go into 2nd. This is the same in every gear. My question is... does this, my observation, really matter, strengthwise... for pulling power... etc... as it would seem to me... the unidrive on the L-157 and the 8 speed transmission seem to go WAY over into gear... with the 8 speed going further over into gear than the L-157's unidrive. AND... the Peerless seems to move over the least to go into gear. I'd appreciate any thoughts that you guys have on my observations! Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 68,259 #2 Posted August 9, 2022 Peerless= apple 🍎 Unidrive= orange 🍊 A Peerless and a Unidrive simply cannot be compared to one another. They are two completely and totally different transmissions that have nothing to do with one another whatsoever except making forward and reverse motion. Comparing your unidrive 4-speed to your unidrive 8-speed also maybe just a tad touchy. It's possible and in fact quite likely that the shift forks in the 8 speed are slightly more "broken in". ... Which would cause the shift lever to need to move further to create the same motion. As for pulling power ... Of the three that you have there the 8-speed is most assuredly the strongest transmission but not for the reason that you think. I'm not familiar with the internals of the Peerless but I am familiar with the fact that it is a lawn mower transmission NOT a Garden Tractor transmission. Can't say for sure if the Peerless transmission is rated to actually tow anything at all but I wouldn't be comfortable moving more than a couple hundred pounds at MOST. The 8-speed Unidrive on the other hand I do have quite a bit of experience with. I've pulled some over 1000 lbs a good many times and I wouldn't hesitate a heartbeat to do it again. The 8-speed unidrive is an 8 pinion open rear differential. Most, (all?) 4 speed Unidrive transmissions are 4 pinion differential. 8 pinion gears are certainly far more stout than 4. 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,080 #3 Posted August 9, 2022 The last Peerless I was into was a constant mesh transmission that shifted by sliding the countershaft so that a key would engage the desired gear. The rest of the gears remained in mesh freewheeling on the counter shaft. My two teenage sons and our Finnish exchange student (who pretended to be Kimi Rikkoinen) weren't too gentle with the clutch. I replaced the set of input bevel gears three times in that transmission. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howie 892 #4 Posted August 9, 2022 I think the transmission the green tractors used was made by Peerless. And I think the one used in the 800 Special is kind of similar. Think comparing it to the one on the lawn tractors is also kind of apples to oranges. Now I am not really sure how strong it is in comparison to the WH unidrive box. Also think the early Sears Suburban used a Peerless. Point being those were considered garden tractors. I know I'm getting older but think my memory is right on this! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,719 #5 Posted August 9, 2022 @Snoopy11 , morning snoop , think @ebinmaine @8ntruck @HowieE was spot on with experience / insight , personally don't have much trans insight , but the related levers and contacts are what interest me . always amazed to watch someone beat the hell out of anything , that has a very obvious linkage / shifter issue . when i look at a problem , the first thing I see is function , more often than not , there is a bushing , joint , lever movement start point , that is worn out / rust neglected , just very sloppy in its intended function . detail the hell out of what its saposed to do , fresh bushings , firming up starting point / related points , is what I would go for , of course , correct fluid . staying greasy , pete 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #6 Posted August 9, 2022 18 hours ago, 8ntruck said: The last Peerless I was into was a constant mesh transmission that shifted by sliding the countershaft so that a key would engage the desired gear. The rest of the gears remained in mesh freewheeling on the counter shaft. Well, compared to the transmissions on the L-157 and the 416-8... the Peerless is a complete PITA to get into gear... double clutching... etc. On the other hand... I always physically check with my eyeballs to verify that the belt has stopped BEFORE I put the machine in gear. To me, the extra step of physically LOOKING at the belt is simply precautionary... (I don't want to be opening up transmissions very often..) Overall, I think there are MAJOR differences in these transmissions, as @ebinmaine noted. They feel and act TOTALLY different from one another. I will never use my Peerless transmission for any pulling duties, except to pull my behind down the drag-strip driveway at hellish rpms... The L-157 has the blade on it, so it actually rarely gets used, unless I have grading duties or a tree goes down and I need to push something out of the way. Otherwise, the 416-8 now pulls all the heavy loads around here... large trees, loads of gravel, etc... I guess the bottom line of this thread is... the quality of the 8 speed transmission is unparalleled. You can literally feel the quality and the amount it goes into gear... it is a very hearty transmission. Don 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,080 #7 Posted August 9, 2022 I forgot to mention that transmission I worked on was in a Craftsman mower with a 20hp B&S opposed twin engine. I think the Craftsman folks were a bit optimistic about how long that transmission would last in that application. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Handy Don 12,444 #8 Posted August 10, 2022 3 hours ago, 8ntruck said: I forgot to mention that transmission I worked on was in a Craftsman mower with a 20hp B&S opposed twin engine. I think the Craftsman folks were a bit optimistic about how long that transmission would last in that application. As a favor to a good friend, I've agreed to take a look at a non-running 12.5 hp JD lawn tractor at a non-profit that he supports. Downloaded the tech manuals and read up on diagnostics, etc. to be ready to visit tomorrow and attempt to help. Also looked at the Peerless 5-speed section. Right off the bat, it gets points for a clever design and implementation (using only one driven shaft and one output shaft via constant mesh gears plus an internal chain drive to implement reverse). The gears are not even on bushings, though, let alone bearings, so it'll have a very finite useful life. The thing that struck me the most is that the drive input is via a small bevel gear driving a larger, ring-style bevel. This is clearly designed as a mower propulsion system (plus maybe to pull a lightly loaded cart or sweeper). This is not at all in the same class as a UniDrive. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Howie 892 #9 Posted August 10, 2022 I think we are talking about two completely different Peerless transmissions here. The one on a 12.5hp JD is probably at its torque limit with a rider on the mower! In fact I remember one of their district reps saying a lot of those mower manufacturers were putting enough hp on the mowers that an empty lawn cart on behind would exceed their limits. Believe there was one model Cub Cadet right after MTD bought them that had one of the Peerless transmission in them. Had one in here a few years ago.I am sure the feel of the shifting is quite different between those and the WH box. Design of the shift rails and forks between the two. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,848 #10 Posted August 10, 2022 Peerless made many transmission models, some light and some heavy duty. I used to have. JD 116 that had an aluminum cased transmission with the sliding “spring loaded”shift keys and plastic bushings. I replasted those keys and bushings at least twice in 20 years. They also made the JD 110/112 cast steel heavy duty transmission and other heavy duty ones. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
