Donor motor found, what next?

[Alex175 784]

So this winter while trying to plow my driveway clean, I got to experience first hand the biggest shortcoming of the Series 1 Kohler KT-17 motor in my C-175, the dreaded oiling issue.  I was at the end of my long and steep driveway, started to back up and next thing I knew there was a loud bang, cloud of smoke, and oil all over the snow.  Thankfully the tractor was able to limp back up the driveway on one cylinder, and I figure the damage was already done, I wasn't going to make it much worse.  Once I got it inside, and cardboard underneath it to catch as much of the spewing oil as possible I looked around to see just how bad it was, and there it was, a big old hole right by the rear cylinder (which was the uphill one when it grenaded).  Because this tractor holds deep nostalgic meaning to me, being my grandparents tractor, and the machine that got me interested in Wheel Horses in the first place, I have been on the hunt ever since for a replacement KT-17, specifically a Series 2, and last I week I found one.

 

(The grenaded Series 1 motor on the C-175)

 

What I found was a 417-8, It has around 1,800 hours according to the meter and it needs some minor work but the engine sounds strong.  So now comes the questions before I begin the transplant.

1. How deep should I go on a rebuild before I put this engine on my C-175.  It looks like it may leak a little oil, should I replace gaskets, or should I go deeper since it is at 1,800 hours, or should I just do a basic tune up and run it for a while to see how it is before I invest too much into it?
2. What external parts should I swap from my Series 1 on to the Series 2 motor, I know that there is very little difference internally between the Series 1 and 2, but have noticed a few things externally that are changed, some which will have no effect on fitment in the C-175 like the air filter housing, but some things like the exhaust look like could be in the way of the hood potentially.
3. Mounting, does anything need to change or is it as simple as bolting it up in the exact same spot and everything (mounting holes, PTO location, etc) lines up perfectly?
4. Is there anything else I need to be on the lookout for, or any other recommendations you guys have on this project?

 

(Front view of the Series 2 that will be transplanted)

 

Additionally, after I transfer the Series 2 to my C-175 I'll be left with a 417-8 roller, and while it is no show pony, the fact that it is an 8-speed while all I have are hydros, and that it has an electric lift on it I can see it being extremely beneficial to repower this machine to use in compliment to my others.  I also like the idea of being able to finally use a 2-stage blower.  What motor do you guys think would be good replacement in the 417-8?  Something that would hopefully bolt right up, is reliable, more on the fuel efficient side, and would be able to run the 2-Stage blower, but otherwise be more of a towing/light plow machine.  

 

(Full View of the 417-8)

[pfrederi 17,741]

I will only speak to the KT-17 overhaul /fix up.  Parts are not easy to come by for KT-17s and not inexpensive.  Machine shop work is more, two journals to grind, two jugs to bore 4 valves to grind....I wound up with well over $800 doing my M-18.  (Same engine as KT17 Series two except for the ignition).  I have 3 KT 17 and love them... but I do not think I could ever see a major overhaul on any of them. 

I swapped a John Deere spec KT 17 into a C-175 had to change manifolds (Intake and the exhaust set ups) and some tins but no big deal.

 

In your case i think since you will have the engine off pull the tins and heads do a decarbon and look at the cylinders.  Valves are not adjustable so if you get carried away lapping them they may be too tight and you have to grind the stem down a tad.

 

Mouting should not be an issue.  This might be a good time to do away with the isolation mounts on the C-175 and use the fixed mounting plate from the 417.  i have converted all my C-175s to that flat plate system.

[roadapples 6,983]

I know this is off topic, but it looks like the rear cylinder on a kohler is blocked the same as the onan. Why aren't they having problems with valve guides?

[Alex175 784]

33 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

This might be a good time to do away with the isolation mounts on the C-175 and use the fixed mounting plate

 

What sort of effect would that have?  I've seen people both for and against the anti-vibration plates, but I don't remember seeing any details on why they felt one way or the other.

[pfrederi 17,741]

2 minutes ago, Alex175 said:

 

What sort of effect would that have?  I've seen people both for and against the anti-vibration plates, but I don't remember seeing any details on why they felt one way or the other.

 

 

The rubber inserts die of old age and the motor moves around a lot. Watch the movement when you engage the PTO especially if it has a significant load like a rototiller...  Replacement rubbers are very expensive and the machined aluminum replacements are also not cheap. 

 

I would strongly suggest you take some time to look a Pats small engine and other parts sources to see what is available and the cost before you make any decisions about digging in deep.... Some stuff is even more now than last year when I did my M-18.

[pfrederi 17,741]

14 minutes ago, roadapples said:

I know this is off topic, but it looks like the rear cylinder on a kohler is blocked the same as the onan. Why aren't they having problems with valve guides?

 

 

Good question.  The KT17 has valve seats and I have never heard of any coming out... On the Onan the issue is exacerbated by oil leakage apparently.  Guess the Kohlers do not leak in the same area????

[pfrederi 17,741]

28 minutes ago, roadapples said:

I know this is off topic, but it looks like the rear cylinder on a kohler is blocked the same as the onan. Why aren't they having problems with valve guides?

 

 

I do not have any Onans but looking at a couple videos looks like the jugs are aluminum.  KT17 jugs are cast iron maybe expansion contraction is more on the Onan making it harder to keep the seat in place????

[Achto 27,597]

1 hour ago, Alex175 said:

How deep should I go on a rebuild before I put this engine on my C-175.  It looks like it may leak a little oil, should I replace gaskets, or should I go deeper since it is at 1,800 hours

 

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

Parts are not easy to come by for KT-17s

 

Complete rebuild kits are still available. Pretty spendy if you need to more than a ring job.

http://www.psep.biz/store/kohler_rebuild_kits.htm

[pfrederi 17,741]

6 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

 

Complete rebuild kits are still available. Pretty spendy if you need to more than a ring job.

http://www.psep.biz/store/kohler_rebuild_kits.htm

  This is worse than when I did the M18.  $700 for ..010 over kit, then add rods .010 under $160 each and Valves NLA, Valve guides were about $150

 

[Alex175 784]

52 minutes ago, Achto said:

Pretty spendy if you need to more than a ring job

 

Yep, being as the full Kohler rebuild kit is almost double what I paid for the whole machine. I think a tune up, some seals if I determine that there are actual leaks, and call it a day.

[ebinmaine 67,570]

2 hours ago, Alex175 said:

 

Yep, being as the full Kohler rebuild kit is almost double what I paid for the whole machine. I think a tune up, some seals if I determine that there are actual leaks, and call it a day.

Check the heads for flatness if you take them off. 

 

[Pullstart 62,905]

59 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Check the heads for flatness if you take them off. 

 

I think it would be wise to pop the heads off and just have a look see before mounting, unless that’s an easy job with the engine in the tractor.