Starter is dead on 1973 tractor

[rnphila 5]

This is my tractor. It worked without any problem for about a year. Today it made attempts to start, then nothing.
I tried few times, starter made few click sounds and then it was quiet.

 

Should I got ahead and replace the starter? Or do some more troubleshooting.

Any advise appreciated!

  

[squonk 41,145]

Check for 12 volts at the little wire at the solenoid with the key in the start position. If you have it, check for 12 volts at the positive wire at the starter. If you have it. clean all of your ground connections. If all good it's probably your starter. DO NOT HIT THE STARTER WITH A HAMMER!!!! 

[daveoman1966 3,752]

Is the battery charged?  Are all connections secure and NOT corroded?  Will tractor start by jumpin the solenoid...with key ON?

If ans to all is YES, then take the starter off and clean it up.  Easy to do.  Be sure to reassembly location marks on body and end caps BEFORE you tear it apart. These get all crudded up and usually (not always) just need cleaned out & lubed.  Be sure the BENDIX GEAR isn't badly worn or chipped...it can be had new.  The MAGNETS on the inside should not be grossly chipped...blow out any tiny chips that may impair function.  Use LUCAS sticky red grease on BOTH bearings.  The FOUR BRUSHES should be smooth, equally worn, and not worn down to the wire.  If so, replace the 4 brushes. For reassembly, hold the 4 brushes in position with a trimmed-out piece of stiff metal...then lower the magnetic field down onto the end cap.  slide the metal out when the brushes are positioned.  

 

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by daveoman1966

[Pullstart 62,905]

If it wasn’t mentioned, it would be a great idea to have the battery load tested too.

[953 nut 55,290]

4 hours ago, rnphila said:

do some more troubleshooting.

NEVER presume the most expensive item is at fault and NEVER replace perfectly good parts in hopes they will fix the problem.  

As @Pullstart said the first step for any electrical problem is to have the battery load tested, auto parts do it for free. While you are there pick up a tube of dielectric grease.

Even if the battery was at fault you would be well advised to clean and tighten ALL electrical connections including grounds and use some dielectric grease on every one of them to prevent corrosion.

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

4 hours ago, Pullstart said:

If it wasn’t mentioned, it would be a great idea to have the battery load tested too.

One loses track of time.  I had a battery load tested due to a starter issue and wouldn’t you know it?  Source of problem located and corrected.  I couldn’t believe the amount of time that had passed since I installed it. That time went somewhere. Where it went, I have no clue!   But it took the battery with it.

[8ntruck 7,015]

Same tractor I have.  There is a safety switch on the PTO lever that prevents the engine from cranking if the PTO is on.

 

Lately, my tractor sometimes clicks when I try to start it.  I'vefound that the PTO lever has developed enough slop that it does not always close the safety switch.  Try wiggling the PTO lever around with the key in the start position.

 

If this is the case, the fix is not too difficult.  The lever runs in plastic bushings that wear out in time.  You should be able to find new bushings in the small parts drawers in your local hardware store.  I'll actually get around to doing that to mine one of these days....

 

Good luck.

[rnphila 5]

Omg, so much good advise. Idk why forum didn't sent notifications.
I'm going to check wires and clean starter. Battery seemed fine, it is relatively new and it had 12.56v

Good point about dielectric grease. I always pondered what to do with battery connectors.

Just not sure if I have time to do all these, haha.

[Handy Don 12,233]

13 minutes ago, rnphila said:

Idk why forum didn't sent notifications

There are settings in your profile for notifications. 

[rnphila 5]

The starter works fine, I took it off and tested with the battery. It had 12v on the black wire connected to it.

 

How do I test solenoid? It has three wires, right? Ground, red and thin red wire going under the chassis.

[squonk 41,145]

13 minutes ago, rnphila said:

The starter works fine, I took it off and tested with the battery. It had 12v on the black wire connected to it.

 

How do I test solenoid? It has three wires, right? Ground, red and thin red wire going under the chassis.

 

Check for 12 volts at the little wire at the solenoid with the key in the start position. If you have it, check for 12 volts at the positive wire at the starter. If you have it. clean all of your ground connections. There is one big wire coming from the battery positive. Should be 12 volts all time. Other 2 wires should be 12 volts with the key in the crank position. Soleoid grounds through it's mounting bolts. Does it click when you try to start it? 

[squonk 41,145]

Another thing. Is there an ammeter on this tractor?  If it fails or it's connections are bad it will kill all power to the key switch.

[peter lena 8,634]

@rnphila  lots of good advise on that , @daveoman1966 starter tear down was very good , other members also   @953 nut   DO SOME MORE TROUBLESHOOTING , leaning toward grounding  , corrosion etc. battery ground to chassis bolt area , , loosen the bolt  , wire brush area , dielectric grease , check related switch ground spot , all related grounds should be loosened up wire brushed , greased , you are very close , pete

[rnphila 5]

9 minutes ago, squonk said:

Another thing. Is there an ammeter on this tractor?  If it fails or it's connections are bad it will kill all power to the key switch.

Yes, there is ammeter.

 

So, the salenoid 

12 minutes ago, squonk said:

Check for 12 volts at the little wire at the solenoid with the key in the start position. If you have it, check for 12 volts at the positive wire at the starter. If you have it. clean all of your ground connections. There is one big wire coming from the battery positive. Should be 12 volts all time. Other 2 wires should be 12 volts with the key in the crank position. Soleoid grounds through it's mounting bolts. Does it click when you try to start it? 

The solenoid clicked once after I put battery and started back. Not it’s quiet.

 

Voltmeter shows 2v on the small wire when I put key at run position. And about 4V on solenoid red and black

 

12.5v when key is off 

[squonk 41,145]

Just now, rnphila said:

Yes, there is ammeter.

 

So, the salenoid 

The solenoid clicked once after I put battery and started back. Not it’s quiet.

 

Voltmeter shows 2v on the small wire when I put key at run position. And about 4V on solenoid red and black

 

12.5v when key is off 

The red and black large wires are both 12 volt wires. Do not put your meter across them to measure voltage. Is your meter ground going to the battery doing these tests? 

 

[squonk 41,145]

Look at this wire. It is the power feed on a 74 C-160. Same tractor as yours. It should be attached to your solenoid on the stud where your positive cable from your battery goes. This tractor had the same problem as yours. It feeds power to your ammeter. The ammeter was dead and the wire was actually broke where there was still insulation. Your low voltage readings make me think the issue is with this wire, ammeter or key switch.

 

[rnphila 5]

9 minutes ago, squonk said:

Look at this wire. It is the power feed on a 74 C-160. Same tractor as yours. It should be attached to your solenoid on the stud where your positive cable from your battery goes. This tractor had the same problem as yours. It feeds power to your ammeter. The ammeter was dead and the wire was actually broke where there was still insulation. Your low voltage readings make me think the issue is with this wire, ammeter or key switch.

 

There is definitely low reading (with key in run)

 

so the solenoid get this 1.5V when the pedal pressed, which means switch on pedal working. The wires from pedal goes into the control panel.

 

is there a way to isolate faulty device or circuit?

 

[squonk 41,145]

13 minutes ago, rnphila said:

There is definitely low reading (with key in run)

 

so the solenoid get this 1.5V when the pedal pressed, which means switch on pedal working. The wires from pedal goes into the control panel.

 

is there a way to isolate faulty device or circuit?

 

There should be 12 volts at that wire with key in START There also should be a small wire on the post green wire in diagram with the large red wire  feeding the key switch. I don't see it. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by squonk

[squonk 41,145]

[squonk 41,145]

Here is a 73 diagram maybe it will help some.

 

[rnphila 5]

40 minutes ago, squonk said:

There should be 12 volts at that wire with key in START There also should be a small wire on the post green wire in diagram with the large red wire  feeding the key switch. I don't see it. 

Yes there is a small wire beneath the red one that connects to battery.

[squonk 41,145]

4 minutes ago, rnphila said:

Yes there is a small wire beneath the red one that connects to battery.

In the 2nd diagram, you can see it goes directly to the ammeter. If you have 12 volts on that wire at the solenoid, you should have the same at the terminal it connects to on the ammeter. If you have 12 volts there you should have 12 volts on the other ammeter post. If you don't have 12 volts on the first post, you have a bad wire like I did. If you have 12 volts on the first post but do not on the 2nd post you have a bad ammeter.

[rnphila 5]

36 minutes ago, squonk said:

In the 2nd diagram, you can see it goes directly to the ammeter. If you have 12 volts on that wire at the solenoid, you should have the same at the terminal it connects to on the ammeter. If you have 12 volts there you should have 12 volts on the other ammeter post. If you don't have 12 volts on the first post, you have a bad wire like I did. If you have 12 volts on the first post but do not on the 2nd post you have a bad ammeter.

I need to isolate where it is broken. Can I disconnect ammeter?

[squonk 41,145]

Yes. You will have to connect the 2 wires together and insulate them well. Power is just supposed to pass through.

[rnphila 5]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

Yes. You will have to connect the 2 wires together and insulate them well. Power is just supposed to pass through.

That didn’t change the state.

 

however, when I tried to start it few times, 12V suddenly appeared on red, and even started went on for a second.

 

Then voltage is back to 2V, dropping further when key switch to run.

Why is the voltage so low when ignition is on?