K341s from C-160 oil leak

[Cee245 818]

I've been working on this 1975 C-160 and I've kinda brought it up to working condition.  Keep in mind this is not a restore, just trying to make it reliable again. (Just some of the tins were replaced due to excessive cracking etc. 😕  (it's a "20 ft tractor", Looks good from 20 ft) lol

 

Unfortunately, I noticed an oil leak from somewhere in top half of engine near the exhaust. 

I'm not sure where it's coming from, but it's definitely clean synthetic oil escaping from somewhere in the area with the yellow arrow. 

 

So far today, I sprayed de greaser and am letting it dry so I can hopefully see where it's coming from. 

 

I'm not sure, but it could be coming from the exhaust???  It smokes from oil getting either thrown on muffler or it's coming FROM the muffler.  The engine does NOT smoke when running. (There is some smoke on start up but it's black and I thought from using choke.)

 

Background: 

 

I adjusted the valves, decarboned head, the cylinder did not have a lip on the wall and appears in working order. 

Rebuilt and adjusted carburetor using oem Kohler kit. Cleaned up electrical connections. 

 

I did not notice any oil leakage before I did work to it. At least I didn't notice this much. 

 

 

Cory

[ebinmaine 67,484]

I'm going to follow this along and see how it gets solved. The first thing that comes to my mind is a breather with the Reed installed the wrong way.

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

It is so hard to tell from the pictures... maybe coming from the governor area...

 

Don

[peter lena 8,625]

@Cee245  agree with @ebinmaine and @Snoopy11 on the possibilities, personally super lube that governor shaft to insure its easy function.  maybe its the reed tube installation , hope its easy ,BTW HORSE IS LOOKING SWEET ! , also looking at that perfect  front engine shot , and fuel hose to carb straight vertical run , nice spot for a fuel check valve , evilenergy 5/16 ".  when I  see something  I refer to it . holds fuel for faster starts ,  good luck with your find , pete

[squonk 41,104]

Several things come to mind. Kinda hard to see exactly what your pointing at but the 3 that pop into my mind are: 

 

That corner of the head is at the exhaust valve and the most heat. Did you resurface the head? All of the heads I have done that area is the worst spot. 

Did you use new head bolts? I always do. Did you re-torque after it had warmed up and cooled down? ( Aluminum Expansion)

 

I have seen the governor shaft leak on many Kohlers. There is no seal there. A lot of people say synthetic oil will find a leak faster than conventional oil. I have never seen it or believe it but it is something to think about.

 

A breather assembly installed wrong can increase the internal crankcase pressure and force oil out where ever it can.

 

Nice job on the paint! 

[Cee245 818]

Thanks for the replies... Sorry for the blurry pics, my camera has a scratch in the upper left...

 

I looked it over after cleaning and drying...I think I see part of the issue... this little Phillips head screw was out! (Yellow arrow) I put it back in on this pic.

 

I say "part of the issue" because there is quite a bit of oil under the Breather area(red arrow) 

It would have to take a right turn to build up under the Breather area although it seems possible.  It looks like the governor shaft? Has a slight leak (blue arrow)

 

I'm pretty confident I put the Breather on correct as I had the diagram in front of me because I wasn't positive how it went back together.  Same with the carb... 

Disclaimer; I have been wrong once before! (OK a lot) 

 

 

 

Cory

Edited August 3, 2022 by Cee245
Pic

[ebinmaine 67,484]

1 minute ago, Cee245 said:

; I have been wrong once before!

I had a good friend back in high school whose father was kind of a character.

He used to tell us... 

 

I'm never wrong.

I thought I was wrong once waaaay back in 1974, but it turned out I was not wrong. I was mistaken.

 

[Cee245 818]

@squonk

Also, I didn't resurface head etc, just decarbon and new Gasket. Haven't RE-torqued yet due to its only run for maybe 5 minutes since re assembly 

[squonk 41,104]

On the breather, do you know if you have the little drain hole on the inner plate on the bottom? 

 

The Governor shaft leak is quite common. Like I said there is no seal there.

[Cee245 818]

I also reamed each axle hole and installed bushings. Also put new heim style tie rods and (I swear on my kids lives) educated guessed at the lengths and they were perfect. 1/4" toe in. Same as my Honda 250R's back in racing days.

The last set was non adjustable and was toe out and it didn't know where it wanted to go...  kinda dangerous 😳 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

9 minutes ago, squonk said:

The Governor shaft leak is quite common. Like I said there is no seal there.

I don't personally think it's a big deal if a little oil pukes from the governor shaft area... so... if that's what this thread turns out to be... I wouldn't worry too much about it...

 

Don

[rmaynard 15,458]

Sounds like a classic case of breather installed backward. 

[Cee245 818]

8 minutes ago, squonk said:

On the breather, do you know if you have the little drain hole on the inner plate on the bottom? 

 

The Governor shaft leak is quite common. Like I said there is no seal there.

 

I don't know 100% for sure, but I'll check if necessary...

 

Gotcha on the no seal. It doesn't appear bad, but worth mentioning 

 

 

Thanks!

[Cee245 818]

Took it a part... what am I missing? 

Is the part with yellow arrow flipped?

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Cee245

[rmaynard 15,458]

This is the order of assembly:

[peter lena 8,625]

@Cee245  love the heims , have them on my 3 horses  for years , never had one fail or give trouble , also added  one on my clutch linkage , close to rear end , and also have them on all my pto lever ends , in place of the trunnion , also on my snow plow  lever ends to  steering quadrant . have them on threaded  rod , as a durability test , never had one break  or fail . regularly experimented  with  trouble spots , been bombproof for years .  done similar changes /  testing for durability , so when I  say the conversion works  , I  already have many hours on it . look at a problem / failure  as improvement time . you know what does not work , or regularly acts up ,  make it go away .  rather have solid reliability , than a nagging issue . experiment , I  won't tell anyone , pete    

[Cee245 818]

This is how I had it installed, so I had it right this time...

Did anyone miss in the Pic above (post #6) the yellow arrow? That screw was out. I'm not sure what it does, but it was long. 

[tunahead72 2,412]

9 minutes ago, Cee245 said:

...  Did anyone miss in the Pic above (post #6) the yellow arrow? That screw was out. I'm not sure what it does, but it was long. 

 

That's the governor stop pin, this might help:

Kohler K341smoking and loose part identification - Engines - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

[Cee245 818]

Thanks tuna!  That's what I was talking about. That was completely out. I'd imagine that's where it's coming from. 

[tunahead72 2,412]

4 hours ago, Cee245 said:

 

3 hours ago, Cee245 said:

 

 

I may be seeing this wrong, so feel free to correct me...

 

In the bottom photo I just quoted, is that the front of the valve cover that's resting on the tire?  If so, then to me it looks like the baffle (and the filter and seal that go along with it) should be reversed -- check the diagram that Bob posted, the "bump" on the baffle should be facing the engine.

 

And in the top photo, is that your throttle cable near the top, and is it possibly blocking the vent hole on the valve cover?  You might consider re-routing that cable anyway, it seems to be laying directly between a couple of the cooling fins, right under the exhaust port, very hot.

 

A couple of final thoughts -- Did you possibly overtighten the nut in the center of the valve cover assembly and bend the valve cover so it's not sealing properly around the edges?  And did you use any kind of sealant around the gaskets? Theoretically you don't need to, but it may help.

 

[Cee245 818]

Thanks... 

No I have it exactly how the photo/diagram rmaynard showed. I had it flipped in the photo. 

 

As I mentioned,  the governor screw was completely out... that seems to be the issue as I've run it around for 10 minutes and I can see I only have a little seepage from the governor gear and I can see/smell the fuel pump needs new gasket set as it's leaking g fairly good

[tunahead72 2,412]

4 hours ago, Cee245 said:

@squonk

Also, I didn't resurface head etc, just decarbon and new Gasket. Haven't RE-torqued yet due to its only run for maybe 5 minutes since re assembly 

 

The fact that you didn't flatten the head may be part of the problem, you'll just have to check for leaks around the head after it's run for a while.  Re-torquing may help, I would let it run for a half hour or so, let it get good and hot, and then re-torque after the engine cools completely (there's two schools of thought on this, it makes sense to me to re-torque with the engine cold).

 

[Cee245 818]

Thanks for all the good advice all...

 

I've got the throttle cable on the shelf and it's on the list to install... Thanks for pointing that out, but no it's not close to blocking the upper vent breather plate

 

I'll keep an eye on leaks around the head...

Is milling these heads typically necessary? How else would you flatten?  It didn't come with a hour meter so no clue how many to help determine shape of motor.  

 

 

 

I will run it around for a good half hour and re-torque head bolts. 

 

Then I think ill just keep a close eye on it while I use it. 

My dad always taught to check levels before use, so that kind of stuff is ingrained... mostly. Lol

 

I will need to get a fuel pump rebuild kit and then we'll see how it does under mowing duty.  The Pto appears to be is good working order..  . Crossing fingers 

 

It's a nice little machine. runs good and moves around very well. Tranny is strong as far as I can tell. Will spin tire when attached to a Jeep. Also when I park it on my ramp going into the shed and it doesn't creep. Is that normal on a sunstrand?   

My eatons have always creeped down a slope and whining/clacking noise somewhat easily (obviously with parking brake off) 

 

I'm really happy with the rebuilt front axle components.  Only thing loose there is steering gear / fan gear. It has all teeth and doesn't skip, but I'll address that later. More important to get it running reliable.  

 

@peter lenaI have a check valve that I'll install as well... great place to put one as you mentioned before.. thanks.... I don't remember the brand but I got a 5 or 10 pack and when using it on my others, they've been good for about 2 years.  Made of thin plastic and appear to be not a high quality item,  but is working well so far.