RM-366/368 -- spindle bearings out and in?

[Handy Don 12,174]

I'm trying to make one nicely running deck to put under my refurb'd 854.

I have three parts decks and, so far, at least one decent usable version of every part, even blades (hooray!). The clip from one of the IPLs shows the spindle "stack" from the spur gear at the top to the blade bolt at the bottom. The thing in the middle is the main bearing housing plate.

 

The one glitch I have is that the best of these plates has the worst bearings. You can see in the photo that the needles are completely caked-in with dried grease--in effect the spindles were spinning in a "grease bushing"! (I'd already removed the grease seal.) I do have a set of good spindles with no detectable wear and with cleaned grease ducts and zerks ready to channel some Lucas Red!

 

 Each spindle needs a pair of pressed-in 1508 needle bearings (#5) and a 1303 oil seal (#6). These are readily available for about $55 for the lot. 

 

Where I need help is the on best way to get the old ones out and the new ones in. I've never replaced bearings like this and don't have any purpose built tools for the job. What do I need and how do I do it?

Thanks!

 

 

  

[ri702bill 8,296]

Don - I replaced the needle bearings and seals years ago on my RM 366. You can remove one bearing with a drift punch at an angle from the inside, then use a socket and extension to remove the other. A word of caution - the plate is cast iron - go easy with the hammer! Look at the Torrington catalog, they have the "recommended" shape for the stepped insertion tool. Stepped to keep the needles in place, the bearing round, and the proper size to push on the end. Installation is best done in a press or vise - even force with no impact so as not to dent or distort the new bearing. Same tool works for the seal too.

Bill

[peter lena 8,589]

@Handy Don  agree with  @ri702bill  on the care involve on the bearings. found any and all bearings related to a mower deck / mule drive / pto drive cone needle bearing , lubrication , lucas dark green xtra hd chassis grease , 560 drop temp , no noise or related failures . all of my related bearings are 6203 ( 3/4 ) 2rsc3 . 6 bearings on spindles 2 on mule drive . all careful  rubber side shield removal , wipe out , carb clean flush , lucas refill to same amount. most important is the initial refill of this grease , that will not fail , or whine with noise. always touch up with same grease,  lots of hours , no noise or related problems , basically anything bearing  / movement  related , has this lube , works very well , pete

[Handy Don 12,174]

14 hours ago, ri702bill said:

Don - I replaced the needle bearings and seals years ago on my RM 366. You can remove one bearing with a drift punch at an angle from the inside, then use a socket and extension to remove the other. A word of caution - the plate is cast iron - go easy with the hammer! Look at the Torrington catalog, they have the "recommended" shape for the stepped insertion tool. Stepped to keep the needles in place, the bearing round, and the proper size to push on the end. Installation is best done in a press or vise - even force with no impact so as not to dent or distort the new bearing. Same tool works for the seal too.

Bill

Thanks, Bill.

I went through the Torrington catalog and learned a lot about bearings but there were no tools.

I did find a separate guide to performing the installation that spec'd the required stepped tool dimensions, but had no way to buy tools.

General searching around and there are lots of sets for setting bearings (and I can see that for a lot of folks this makes sense), but frankly, I'm not interested in spending $70+ for something I may never use again.

For each spindle, one side bearing and the oil seal are set flush with the housing so I could make an insertion tool for that side using an old spindle & spur gear, I think.

But to set the one that needs ⅛" recess to leave room for the seal, I'll need an exact fit less .003" on driver for the needle bearing housing to fit inside the bore. Hmmm.

Time to check parts store tool lend/rent.

[Jayzauto 89]

I'm not sure if this will be of any help, since I'm not familiar with these spindles.  But on other applications, I've fabricated my own "Tool".     It's best if you have the new bearing to use for sizing.  Find a GR 8 washer close to the outside diameter as possible.  Grind down to  fit as required.  Then grind 2 flats on the side of the washer, on opposite sides, so it resembles a "Double D" shape.  The flats only need to be large enough to allow the washer to slip Thru the needle bearing housing.  Drop it thru the spindle and rotate it so it catches on the outside bearing race.  Push a bolt thru the opposite end of the spindle, thru the washer and up thru the spindle.  The bolt need to be fairly long, to stick up thru the top.  Then use a 3/8" socket large enough to allow the bearing to be pulled inside of it, but small enough to rest on  the spindle housing.  The thread a nut and washer on the bolt, tighten slowly and the bearing should come out..   Very simple homemade tool.

 

For installation, I use bushing drivers.  It's specifically made for thin bushings and needle bearings.   Fairly common.  Should be able to rent one from an auto parts store.

 

GLuck, Jay

[ineedanother 1,369]

39 minutes ago, Jayzauto said:

Should be able to rent one from an auto parts store.

 

 True, and usually just a fully refundable deposit which is great for those of us who do a handful of these in a lifetime and don't need specialty tools cluttering our limited space.

[Handy Don 12,174]

Thanks for the insights, gentlemen!

The washer & bolt idea for removal intrigued me so I tried it quickly using a standard washer just to see if there was enough room between the two bearings in the bore to get the washer to turn across the end of the bearing. Nope.There is less than ⅜" separating them.

I did check with my local parts stores (no nearby NAPAs) and none had the gripping bearing removers I would need (the kind that gets inserted and then a bolt goes down the middle to expand the "gripping lip" at the bottom so you can pull the bearing out. 

Finally bit the bullet and used a brass punch, penetrant, some heat, and some patience and they are all out (turns out that there were only three in there--the place for the 4th was just a "caked grease bushing ). I have a couple of minor scratches on the two bores to touch up before putting in the new bearings but I'm satisfied.

The good news, though, is that another member has offered to make the tool according to the Torrington specs and lend it to me when its done. It'll set both bearings at their proper depths into the bore and, as well, set the oil seal. WooHoo! I will post some details and pictures when it gets put to use. Meantime, I'm working on painting, etc.

Edited August 1, 2022 by Handy Don

[Jayzauto 89]

Well if there’s a member that can fabricate one, would they be willing to make another for sale??

 

id be interested in that …

 

Thanx, Jay 

[Handy Don 12,174]

Wow. I picked up the tool from our member yesterday and, when I got home, the bearings had arrived. Here are a couple of pictures of them together. I have a bit more work to do before I insert the bearings but I'll get images of that. I'm thinking it'll be fun to use this!

 

The quality of the work on the tool is amazing and it is to the exact specs that the bearing maker recommends with the proper clearances for the ID's of the bearing and the bore to assure proper alignment and clearance as well as the proper angle on the pressing edge to apply the force at the outer edge of the bearing cage and not near the roller ends.

 

A couple of extra thoughtful details are:

- the threaded hole in one end and the wrench flats at the other end--these let you pull a bearing into place using a bolt and plate from the opposite side--no press needed

- the two holes through the body--in conjunction with the metal rod, each one stops the tool at a correct depth into the bore that the bearings and seal require for the RM-type decks (additional holes could be made for other depths)--no measuring required

- it can work for removing bearings as well as setting them, where there is a through bore, such as with the RM deck bearing housings

 

It was made by @ri702bill and anyone should feel free to contact him directly about a purchase. (You may recall, that he's also created a hitch pin with an interior grease channel and zerk to prevent the dreaded "frozen in place" syndrome--I saw one and they are really neat!)

 

  

Edited August 3, 2022 by Handy Don

[ri702bill 8,296]

@Handy Don - thanks for the kind comments - it was a pleasure to spend a bit of time with you and chew the "WH fat",,,

A side note - the 3/16" dowel was the largest I could use so as to not create a breakout in the middle - other hole locations MAY require a double ended tool - more material, more machining, more time and expense...

Bill

Edited August 3, 2022 by ri702bill