Modified or non-standard tie rod question for a 312-A

[davem1111 2,030]

So, I have learned yet another valuable lesson, about not making assumptions and doing things like measuring things instead of assuming they'll be the same. (Well, I was in a bit of a hurry, but that's not a good excuse)...

 

I was getting rid of an old 416-8 that needed major work ( @Snoopy11 has it now ) but my 312-A had 6" front wheels and I wanted to swap them with the 8" on the 416.  I pulled the wheels and spindles off both, since the spindle height is different because of the shorter wheels. Put the 6" ones on the 416-8. Oddly to me, they were toed in quite a bit, but it had adjustable tie rods so I adjusted them some but left it to the new owner to true them up. Didn't have time to put the 8" ones on the 312-A until today, but I wasn't worried - those tie rods should be adjustable too, right?

 

Wrong.  Out of my 3 other tractors, I only found one other adjustable tie rod (on my GT), the rest are fixed. (Well, there is one on the B-100, which I haven't measured but for that I would not be surprised to find a big difference.).  I swapped the adjustable rod from the GT to the 312-A but it will not adjust out far enough to align properly. The fixed rod on the GT seems to be fine. Looking online I can get more adjustable ones for about $35 each, but I don't think even 2 of them will adjust enough from the (belated) measurements I've taken.

 

I guess the angle of the tie rod ear on the 312-A spindles is different than the 400's or GT - maybe these were only used with the 6" wheels? 

 

Seems like my options are:

1. Buy some longer tie rods with the proper ends. They'd need to be able to adjust out at least an inch longer than the "stock" ones.

2. Buy 4 new tie rod ends and some threaded stock of the correct thread and length to make new tie rods

3. Cut 2 of the ones I have and weld in some rebar to make the length correct.

4. Beg @Snoopy11 to trade me back the 6" wheels and spindles... 

 

Option 1 seems a bit tough, unless anyone knows whether there are longer tie rods with the correct ends, or I can figure that out myself. Option 2 seems like the easiest "fix" solution. I can just wait till the ends show up then shop for the threaded stock, and cut it to length. Option 3 will likely result in something ugly that may or may not work, or may suffer from my mediocre welding skills. Option 4 would be a pain, if he's even willing.  We live more than an hour apart. 

 

Any thoughts?  What would you do?   I'm kinda wishing I had just stuck with what I had now... 

[davem1111 2,030]

Hmmmm.... I can get a 2-pack of 5/16" x 24 RH threaded tie rod ends on Amazoooon.  I think this x2 plus about 2 feet of threaded stock and a handful of nuts should make a decent pair of tie rods, no?

 

Also, as I'm looking at all these that I have, some of them are not in great shape - the rubber boots are shot and the ball joints are sloppy. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by davem1111

[Achto 27,600]

11 minutes ago, davem1111 said:

I can get a 2-pack of 5/16" x 24 RH threaded tie rod ends on Amazoooon

 

I personally would not go with anything less than 3/8 rod. I cut the ends off from the stock tie rods, turn the ends down from 5/8" to 3/8" so that I can use new tie rod ends.

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Achto

[davem1111 2,030]

6 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

I personally would not go with anything less than 3/8 rod. I cut the ends off from the stock tie rods, turn the ends down from 5/8" to 3/8" so that I can use new tie rod ends.

 

 

I kinda thought someone would say something like that, and technically, I agree with your approach.  But to me, the weakest part of the rod is going to be that part that is cut down to fit into the tie rod end and it's still 5/16" (I think that's what you meant). True, the rest of the rod would be much stronger and might bend in the middle.   Maybe I could weld a smaller diameter rod stock along the length from near each end to strengthen it... ?   This tractor is mainly a flat yard mower anyway. My GT is the one I would not want to skimp strength on.  I'd also need to check my tap & die to see if I have the right cut but that's pretty standard I think.

 

[Achto 27,600]

9 hours ago, davem1111 said:

end and it's still 5/16" (I think that's what you meant).

 

No, I did mean 3/8". This size is the most common tie rod end for lawn & garden tractors.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Murray-Ariens-Cub-Cadet-Switch/dp/B076VSTZ62/ref=sr_1_5?gclid=Cj0KCQjwlK-WBhDjARIsAO2sErQE9u_LcrxeSj-19dthZGJqa6j8oZ3zB1pQPxznFedWpRj5sl-c31IaAtrvEALw_wcB&hvadid=409958981944&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9019452&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1360030780141677780&hvtargid=kwd-81307128963&hydadcr=24660_11410817&keywords=3%2F8+tie+rod+end&qid=1657587746&sr=8-5

Edited July 12, 2022 by Achto

[davem1111 2,030]

21 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

No, I did meant 3/8". This size is the most common tie rod end for lawn & garden tractors.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Murray-Ariens-Cub-Cadet-Switch/dp/B076VSTZ62/ref=sr_1_5?gclid=Cj0KCQjwlK-WBhDjARIsAO2sErQE9u_LcrxeSj-19dthZGJqa6j8oZ3zB1pQPxznFedWpRj5sl-c31IaAtrvEALw_wcB&hvadid=409958981944&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9019452&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=1360030780141677780&hvtargid=kwd-81307128963&hydadcr=24660_11410817&keywords=3%2F8+tie+rod+end&qid=1657587746&sr=8-5

 

Ah! Thanks - I get it now.  I had just done a quick measurement of the threaded part and thought it was 5/16". But 3/8" is a bit better. I'm going to order 4 of those and just get some threaded 3/8" stock, and decide later if I want to weld something to it for strength. 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

2 minutes ago, davem1111 said:

I'm going to order 4 of those and just get some threaded 3/8" stock, and decide later if I want to weld something to it for strength.

 

So... that means that I have to stop building the cannon to shoot them back over to Bloomington?

 

AH MAN!

 

Don

[roadapples 6,983]

I'd just call wheel horse parts and more...

[davem1111 2,030]

3 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

 

So... that means that I have to stop building the cannon to shoot them back over to Bloomington?

 

AH MAN!

 

Don

 

 

Hey, if you're that good with artillery, make it so!  Just kidding - I'm going the easy route, already ordered 4 new tie rod ends. I think this will work out just fine. 

 

[Lee1977 6,663]

Heims joints is the way to go. They are not the cheapest but will last longer than any ball type. I installed as set on my C-120 in 1989 and they are still tight no excessive play.. I use 1/2" heims joints and to keep fr0m having to drill out the steering  triangle I bushed them down to 3/8". When I got my 520 I used two heims joint and the bushing on it. I bought 4 heims joint with the treaded 1/2 stud a drilled and trapped the arm on the spindles and used a jam nut below.