Pullstart 62,905 #1 Posted July 8, 2022 Ever watch those things? Customer states: I did my own brakes… Customer states: I hear a grinding noise… Today’s “Customer States” for Pullstart Stables Auto Shop Bonanza? 2010 Honda Oddesey, 3.5L V6, 134,300 miles. Check engine light on. Shop next to their work says misfire in #2. “We get these all the time. You need new heads, the valve seats are coming loose.” It came here for a second opinion. I was skeptical that it needed any head work done. I pulled the intake, injectors, cleaned ‘em, put it back together, changed out $18 a piece spark plugs and there’s your head job. One of the plugs had a broken ceramic and a couple others were just due for a replacin’ I feel good about charging them $400 for a good Ole fashioned tune up and they don’t have to finance a repair bill! 1 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Moparfanforever 851 #2 Posted July 8, 2022 I would drive right back to the shop and have a meeting of the minds!! What a rip off!! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #3 Posted July 8, 2022 6 minutes ago, Pullstart said: valve seats are coming loose Well, that's just stupid. Flat out asinine. The idea is to check the easy things first, plugs, wires for continuity, etc... THEN move on... I take it that the engine wasn't knocking...? Don 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,905 #4 Posted July 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, Moparfanforever said: I would drive right back to the shop and have a meeting of the minds!! What a rip off!! Apparently they have a good business model… according to my customer. I’m just glad they didn’t have the money to pay premium fees and I have the conscience to help ‘em out! 2 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,327 #5 Posted July 8, 2022 Back in my teenage years, I turned wrenches on a neighborhood short track stock car. We had a guy locally working out of his 2 car garage at home that would buy up body on frame Chevies and gut them, weld in a roll cage, cut the fenders, and replace the right front spindle assembly with a race approved one. He sold them as rollers - complete minus the engine & transmission. We even bought one... Fast forward about 4 years, he got busted by zoning for running an illegal Garage business out of his residence- he bought a closed Citgo gas station near the highway and set up shop there. I stopped in one day to chat - he had a 65 Impala in there that they had to replace 4 bent pushrods on. I asked how he figured his labor cost - did he use the Flat Rate Manual?? He said "No, I don't. I fugure in the cost of parts and labor to give them an estimate. When I give them the price, if they don't flinch or complain, I say PLUS LABOR." A colorful character, for sure... 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wh500special 2,184 #6 Posted July 8, 2022 Unless it has been done, at 134k that engine is also overdue for a timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and valve lash adjustment. I think Honda sells the the first three of those items as a kit. My 105k Odyssey is due and it's $1100 at the local independent. I didn't check with the dealer. I looked at doing it myself and it's beyond my patience level as there is a lot of overburden to get out of the way first. I am convinced very few owners actually bother with the timing belt service and that the belt's recommended service life is wildly conservative. But they are interference engines so it's a roll of the dice. A coworker has that same engine in a Pilot and he's at 12 years old and 235k and still on the original belt and valve lash. As reliable as Hondas are, their engines - like that one - with the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) have a reputation for consuming oil and needing new piston rings on the cylinders that shut down intermittently to save fuel. This often first manifests in a check engine lamp with the code for a cylinder misfire. If you checked the oil and found it low you might want to look deeper. This isn't a unique Honda problem. Variable displacement in most of its iterations across manufacturers has its limits. FYI. Steve 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,149 #7 Posted July 8, 2022 19 minutes ago, wh500special said: Unless it has been done, at 134k that engine is also overdue for a timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and valve lash adjustment. I think Honda sells the the first three of those items as a kit. My 105k Odyssey is due and it's $1100 at the local independent. I didn't check with the dealer. I looked at doing it myself and it's beyond my patience level as there is a lot of overburden to get out of the way first. I am convinced very few owners actually bother with the timing belt service and that the belt's recommended service life is wildly conservative. But they are interference engines so it's a roll of the dice. A coworker has that same engine in a Pilot and he's at 12 years old and 235k and still on the original belt and valve lash. As reliable as Hondas are, their engines - like that one - with the Variable Cylinder Management (VCM) have a reputation for consuming oil and needing new piston rings on the cylinders that shut down intermittently to save fuel. This often first manifests in a check engine lamp with the code for a cylinder misfire. If you checked the oil and found it low you might want to look deeper. This isn't a unique Honda problem. Variable displacement in most of its iterations across manufacturers has its limits. FYI. Steve My Tundra and 4Runner were 125,000 mile timing belt engines. I asked my Toyota guy how far would be pushing it. He said 175,000 and the water pump would probably be leaking before that. So I had them done at 125. 4Runner frame was rotted last year but the 4.7 was bought for another truck. I traded the Tundra in a 250,000 3 years ago right after I put the 2nd belt and pump in. I saw it in the Lowes parking lot 2 days ago. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,149 #8 Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Pullstart said: Ever watch those things? Customer states: I did my own brakes… Customer states: I hear a grinding noise… Today’s “Customer States” for Pullstart Stables Auto Shop Bonanza? 2010 Honda Oddesey, 3.5L V6, 134,300 miles. Check engine light on. Shop next to their work says misfire in #2. “We get these all the time. You need new heads, the valve seats are coming loose.” It came here for a second opinion. I was skeptical that it needed any head work done. I pulled the intake, injectors, cleaned ‘em, put it back together, changed out $18 a piece spark plugs and there’s your head job. One of the plugs had a broken ceramic and a couple others were just due for a replacin’ I feel good about charging them $400 for a good Ole fashioned tune up and they don’t have to finance a repair bill! Had something similar happen to me about 10 years ago. 2005 Colorado with the 5 banger. Has like 110,000 miles on it. I had noticed the fast idle didn't work like it normally would but no biggie. Then my check engine light came on. Cylinder # 3 misfire. Cleared the code but it came back. I took it to the dealer in town. I grew up with the Service director and service manager. I worked with 3 guys in the shop in the past. The guy who worked on the truck was the shop foreman at the dealer we worked together at and is pretty sharp. I dropped it off and called when I got out of work. Still working on it. Couldn't tell if it was a coil or injector so they were moving parts around to see if the misfire would move too. Finally at the end of the day they tell me I have low compression on # 3 and have the dreaded valve seat issue. $3000 to fix. I say let me think about it. I go to leave and start the truck. The fast idle is back. I drive it home and it runs fine. I decide I'm goint to look for another truck as I'm not in love with the Colorado anyway. Keep driving 2-3 month's and no light. Find my 4 runner and sell the Colorado to a guy in PA. I tell him all about the check engine light deal. He drives the truck another 4 years before he wrecks it. Never had the light come on. Were these guys trying to rip me off? I say no. Knowing what I know about them and them knowing what I know, I think they really didn't know what was wrong and might have even fixed the issue by taking things apart and redoing connections. I've seen all kinds of crazy stuff with electronics. I have seen entire buildings shut down and restart on there own without anybody touching anything. Sometimes you just get lucky 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wallfish 17,011 #9 Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Pullstart said: I have the conscience to help ‘em out! It's a better feeling to sleep with a clear conscience IMO! Some would rather sleep with a few dishonest dollars instead. There are much better rewards in life than money 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,327 #10 Posted July 8, 2022 When I met my future wife in 1975, her Dad ran a one man licensed Repair shop out of the 2 car garage at his house. He worked for many years prior for a couple of GM dealerships, specializing i front end work and alignments. When he went on his own, he told my wife's mother "OK, I can either get rich quick, but we may have to move, or I can make an honest living...." A man of scrupples and good honesty, he chose the later. Never regretted it, neither did we.... 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ri702bill 8,327 #11 Posted July 9, 2022 A second story about that colorfull character that had bought the closed Citgo station. After a year there, he bought a used tow truck - primarily to pick up junk cars and to tow his son's short track racecar. The gas pumps and underground storage tanks were long gone, but the raised cement island that had the pumps was still there. There was a small business in the city that fixed, bought, and sold 10 to 15 year old Volkswagen Beetles at the time. When they got one that had been rear-ended hard enough that the back of the body was into the front of the engine, they would call Dick and he would tow it to his shop to "fix" it and pull that structure out enough to allow the engine to run again. I stopped in one day and his son got off the phone and yelled "Dad, they are coming in an hour to pick up the Bug - I'll start moving some cars". Seems that for a flat $100 fee, he would back up to the Bug and attach the 2 meat hooks of the wrecker boom to the damaged structure and take up the slack. His son would get into the Bug, stand on the brake pedal and his Dad would tow him backwards for 3 laps around the pump island to pull the sheet metal out! That explained the skid marks!! Once they were done and had it running, I asked him if he had a "fix" for if they pulled it out too far. He replied "Yes, I do. See that big maple tree on the corner of the property - we just start the Bug up and back it into the tree a couple of times....." True story. Bill 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
