tim57chevy 12 #26 Posted July 8, 2022 I sure hope so Tuneup. I could use some financial relief on this project. Plus my sister will gain one heck of a mower. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tim57chevy 12 #27 Posted July 8, 2022 Quick question. As i am new to Wheel Horse/Kohler engines. Is the bushing for the crank end of the connecting rod built in or something? I do not see any bushings in the rebuild kits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,509 #28 Posted July 8, 2022 The crank end of the rod is finished as the bushing/bearing surface. Nothing extra needed. If the bearing surface of the rod is the culprit, it sometimes leaves an aluminum residue on the crankshaft journal that can be removed by soaking it in muriatic acid. This usually indicates a lack of lubrication. If it were my engine, I would invest the money in building it. You won't find a better 12 horsepower engine. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pacer 3,173 #29 Posted July 8, 2022 The sad truth is - about the ONLY way the piston/rod will separate like that is for the crank to be worn - badly! The looseness of the rod at the crank will just not last long before it separates, and of course this means there is .... severe? damage to the crank. Amazingly tho, the cylinder will often survive this and a new piston will fix that part ---- maybe!. The cyl will have to be examined/measured to know.... A good possibility your crank will likely be worn too much to be saved - itll have to be measured/examined to find out. At the very least it'll have to be ground (machined) Before you go into your ... wait? period get the pan off and get a visual of the crank so youll have an idea of how bad the damage is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #30 Posted July 8, 2022 Like I said. A bang is more than a cheapo $100 fix. If the rod broke high, probably cylinder damage. If it broke at the crank / crank damage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjg854 11,378 #31 Posted July 8, 2022 Also check "very" carefully the cylinder wall, a crack or missing piece, and that block becomes a boat anchor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,601 #32 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, rjg854 said: a crack or missing piece, and that block becomes a boat anchor Ish. Depends on where the damage is. The K181 that I just rebuilt has a chunk missing out of the cylinder but it is below the travel of the rings. This engine runs good now with no issues. Edited July 8, 2022 by Achto 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tim57chevy 12 #33 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) OK so I was curious. I pulled the engine out of the C-120 and pulled the oil pan. Man these things hold a lot of oil even after draining them. So looked in the bottom and lo and behold the entire problem was the rod end nut fell off the connecting rod and the one was almost off. Every thing I can see in the block looks to be still good. I have a hone so I will cross hatch the cylinder prior to reinstall of new piston. What spec should I use for when the bore or crank needs to be redone. Engine was NOT smoking at all before this issue. I'm thinking just put a stock new set in and done.One other question. How the heck do you remove the Balance (Grenade) gears? I have seen several videos on You tube but they all show the gears after they are out of the engine. No help there. Edited July 8, 2022 by tim57chevy downsize pictures Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,601 #34 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, tim57chevy said: What spec should I use for when the bore or crank needs to be redone. Here is the manual, it will have all the info that you need. https://resources.kohler.com/power/kohler/enginesUS/pdf/tp_2379.pdf Make sure that you measure every thing to see if it is with in specs. If the bore and piston is good you may just need new rings. Edited July 8, 2022 by Achto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #35 Posted July 8, 2022 That crank will need to be turned at minimum. the balance gears are held in with little snap rings. easy to get out once the crank is out. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,759 #36 Posted July 8, 2022 To get the balance gears out you have to rotate the crank to find just the right spot to give you enough clearance to get them out. The lower one is easy, the upper one requires the crank in just the right spot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,759 #37 Posted July 8, 2022 1 hour ago, tim57chevy said: Can you show us a close up picture of the “what is this”. A front and side view would help. If it is a flat piece of metal, it sort of looks like the tab off the governor shaft. That would mean the cam has to come out to replace the governor. Some pictures of up inside the engine would also be helpful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #38 Posted July 8, 2022 Blowing up the picture it looks like that piece has flats around it. Don't recognize it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmaynard 15,509 #39 Posted July 8, 2022 I bought a running K161 that apparently had a broken rod at one time. The only damage that I noted when I took the piston out was this: One side of the bottom of the cylinder is broken out, and the opposite side has a ding in it. No damage in the piston ring area. The rod was replaced with a STD (230519), and the crank journal looks good. I don't know if the crank was replaced or not, I doubt it. I'm going to Plastigage it and see what the clearance it. Not to try to get this thread off track, just wanted to say that sometimes a broken rod can be fixed simply without too much other part involvement. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #40 Posted July 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, squonk said: Blowing up the picture it looks like that piece has flats around it. Don't recognize it. Is it really unusual for the rod cap to come apart like that? It doesn't look like the wrist pin area is broken? I haven't seen that before...? Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #41 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rmaynard said: I bought a running K161 that apparently had a broken rod at one time. The only damage that I noted when I took the piston out was this: One side of the bottom of the cylinder is broken out, and the opposite side has a ding in it. No damage in the piston ring area. The rod was replaced with a STD (230519), and the crank journal looks good. I don't know if the crank was replaced or not, I doubt it. I'm going to Plastigage it and see what the clearance it. Not to try to get this thread off track, just wanted to say that sometimes a broken rod can be fixed simply without too much other part involvement. You have a lot of cylinder scoring on the left side. a new piston skirt will get torn up. Your rod broke high. When it comes apart at the crankshaft, usually the crank will need turning. Look at this picture. Crank looks real nice but it still needed turning. Edited July 8, 2022 by squonk 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #42 Posted July 8, 2022 Yeah, that is what I am more used to seeing, little damage at sleeve area nearest crankcase... Seems like a much easier fix if the rod cap is the only problem... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkie333 265 #43 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, oliver2-44 said: “what is this” Around your question What is this-- it looks like a wrist pin to me. --But a better picture would help. Edited July 8, 2022 by sparkie333 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
richmondred01 2,237 #44 Posted July 8, 2022 (edited) Bore it. Press a sleeve in. Takes you back to standard bore and good for another 50 years. Ive been doing several sleeves lately for the odd ball or hard to find blocks. Edited July 8, 2022 by richmondred01 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ineedanother 1,369 #45 Posted July 8, 2022 11 hours ago, Tuneup said: So, now you're really curious, right? Did the crank survive unscathed? The cam? Did the bore get chipped at the base? Oh, that bang! You'll know in about 45 minutes of wrenching. All will be revealed. These engines are so tough - you might just be perfectly fine and $100 in parts will have you back in action. I'm curious. Lots to ponder but if someone had been in there previously and failed to do something that might cause the push rod to eventually come off the crank, who knows? Likely a fair amount of damage but I wouldn't write it off just yet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ineedanother 1,369 #46 Posted July 9, 2022 2 hours ago, ineedanother said: I'm curious. Lots to ponder but if someone had been in there previously and failed to do something that might cause the push rod to eventually come off the crank, who knows? Likely a fair amount of damage but I wouldn't write it off just yet. My apologies, way out of sync on this. I didn't see that there was a second page of replies in the thread before I posted this comment and y'all were waaaay ahead of me I'm tracking now though to see how this shakes out Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkie333 265 #47 Posted July 9, 2022 8 hours ago, richmondred01 said: hard to find blocks. Just go on with the build---- it should be ok Those things are tough. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tim57chevy 12 #48 Posted July 9, 2022 Thanks Achto for the link to the Kohler manual. On the subject of the What is this in the picture above. It is a short tube. Is there something like that on one side of the connecting rod to keep the cap aligned? The connecting rod cap is the only thing I see damage on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,150 #49 Posted July 9, 2022 I see damage on the crank journal. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WH nut 553 #50 Posted July 9, 2022 18 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: Is it really unusual for the rod cap to come apart like that? It doesn't look like the wrist pin area is broken? I haven't seen that before...? Don I had a C81 with a K181 that I had used a couple years do that. I was able to put a new rod and pistion in her and run it. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
