8 speed 4 pinion to 8 pinion

[Kelly 1,030]

I'm getting ready to open up my 8 speed to check it over and reseal, I'm going to put this in my loader tractor. So I'm going to want it to be a 8 pinion diff. I've read the other post about 4 pinion diff's set up for the extra pinions, Is this just a drop in? Will pinions from a hydro work?

This trans came out of a 78 C-81 with 1 1/8 axles

I've tore down my 8 speed for my Raider 12, with 10 pinion that was easy. I know this is the same thing, just the diff. being different.

Does anyone have a set of pinions to sell? Kelly in MI.

[nylyon-(Admin) 7,468]

Are you sure yours is 4-pinion? I don't know for sure, but thought all C series were 8?

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

Kelly, you're in luck!

The 103916 transaxle is already equipped with an 8 pinion differential.

Here's the application list for that transaxle: (brace yourself!)

01-08K801, C-81 8-Speed Tractor, 1980-->MECHANICAL TRANSMISSION-8 SPEED

[kpinnc 13,704]

I don't think I've ever seen a tranny with 1 and 1/8th axles and a 4 pinion diff... I thought all those with the big axles had either an 8 or a 10 pinion.

That goes for hydros too.

I could be wrong, it's just that I've never seen it so far.

Kevin

[Kelly 1,030]

I'm glad I didn't buy any gears. That's some list . Thanks Terry. And no I haven't opened it up yet. Just wanted to get parts ready so I can do it in a night, I'm going to put axle bearings in and all new seals, hoping I won't need any other parts. I have other transmissions if I have to. Again Thanks Terry. Kelly in MI.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

The one I really want to get split apart so I can check it out is the 5054 transaxle that came out of my '68 Charger 9 (1-7931)

It SHOULD have the automotive-style spider gears in the differential, and I know exactly how to make those into a full "locker" :thumbs:

[Kelly 1,030]

I have a 68 charger 9 that's a parts tractor, The trans is good so I realy don't want to tear it apart, but Do you know if that diff. will fit an 8 speed? Or is it not a good set up? why did they not continue using it? cost? Again how do you know so much? lot's of reading. Thanks Kelly in MI.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

Check the model number first, Kelly.... If it's a 1-7932 it will have the "regular" 4 pinion differential. (transaxle is #5062, I believe) They both have 1 1/8" axles, but I don't know about interchanging them with 8 speed parts.

I'm guessing the spider gear style was dropped because it wore quicker and was weaker. This is also the old-style with the retainer pins through the inner ends of the axles instead of the snap rings. It probably cost more to manufacture, and may have even taken longer to assemble on the line at the factory.

As far as knowledge goes: read, look, listen, ask questions, and have a good memory. (and camera ) The more tractors you own and/or work on helps too. :thumbs:

[Kelly 1,030]

I know my fair share about cars, and I'm learning alot about WH's, I listen but you have to take some people with a grain of salt, as I think some don't know what they think they do, I'm sure you've met that guy that rambles on like he knows everything, I just set back and listen to the bs fly, when I know more about what is being said.

Me, if I'm not sure I normaly keep my mouth shut, and not make an a$$ out of myself, in front of someone that knows better.

And I learn the most I think from doing, make a mistake and learn from it.

I'll check the model no. on the charger when it's not buried in a snow drift.

I'll stick with the 8 pinion set up I have, I asumed(spelling) that being a 8hp it would have 4 pinions. As I heard in a movie, Asumption is the mother of all F ups. Kelly in MI.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

I have enough faith in most of the members in this group to know they will correct me or catch an error on my part. I respect each and every one of those members for the individual knowledge they possess and value that as enrichment for myself. I definitely won't be offended if someone corrects me -- that is how true knowledge is attained.

I was also VERY fortunate to have what I call the "Wheel Horse Bible" (the red binders full of literature, IPL's, and owners manuals) given to me by a longtime friend and hardware store manager who sold Wheel Horse tractors and attachments from the early 60's up until about 1981. The information in those manuals is "priceless" and I take them as the only "TRUE TRUTH" you can rely on.

And yes.... you'll always run in to the "posers" - or "BS'ers" as they are more commonly called -- The guys who own one Wheel Horse and will tell you everything you need to know about every other Wheel Horse tractor ever built. (even if it is wrong ) There are guys who pick your stuff apart at shows and tell you that things are incorrect or missing. Apparently they work on the same restoration level as the "numbers matching" Concours people? :wtf: I own a garden tractor, not a Yenko Camaro!

I have also learned to take the crap from the CC and JD guys at the local show I attend, and I treat it more as jealousy and envy than anything else. Their favorite "hot air release" is "you can't pull with a Wheel Horse because they are belt drive" That one pegs the ignorance meter, doesn't it?????

I'm sure there were a few people at the 2007 WHCC show that didn't like my C-161 and the beautiful noise it made when I fired it up, and I'm sure the tricycle will get its share of criticism there too. I assembled both of those tractors from "spare parts" all by myself and apologize if they offend anyone. (NOT! )

Keep asking questions, and keep doing the "hands-on" research too. You have some great tractors, and I sure hope you're able to get some to PA in June. I'll help you in every way I can, but you gotta promise no more , OK?

(of course I edited this post -- that's a lot of typing! )

[Curmudgeon 28]

Well said Terry!!!!!!!!!!!

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

Thank you, Dale !

And by the way.... here's an "admittance of incorrectness" on my part right now:

I just realized that the Attach-Matic hitch was introduced in 1972 (I believe it was called "Tach-A-Matic" then ) not 1973 as I had previously thought. :thumbs:

[Kelly 1,030]

OK, Terry no more I do have a note to make about something you stated in another post, about the T bar lift. I have 2, 1970 raiders and both have the T bar on them? one looks like maybe was added later but the other looks factory. any guess on this one? I know the kit to install the tach a matic decks used a long hooked rod in the place of the T bar, along with the front bracket, I have the set up with manual on my 68 Electro 12.

I have 4 binders full of manuals for tractors and attachments, and a red binder for all of 1971 tractors, parts break down with part no.s A guy gave it to me when I was buying a 953 and a 701 both ruff for $50 I think the binder was almost worth that.

I have been to only 3 garden tractor shows ever, and only showed at one, and I had the only WH's there, 4 of them, 90% CC the rest JD, speedex, Allis, my WH's and 1 Mini moline.

I'am hoping to be at the big show this year, sat. we are going on a family vac. and that is one of the stops. DC after that to the smithsonian.

I need to speak up more in some of these post, as I have some knowledge about some of the stuff that is being posted, just didn't want to seem like the new guy that thinks he knows it all. and by the time I try to check some of my poor grammer and spelling both I'm not good at,(like you can't tell) someone else has already posted what I was going to say.

Anyway I like this site the best of all the WH site's I've been on, nice people, easy to follow, when we don't get to far I also like the smilie faces wish I could use more of them . Thanks to all Kelly

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

I have two 1970 frames here -- both are automatics, and neither have the holes for the "T" bar.

It would be a simple upgrade, providing you have a newer one to get the proper hole location from.

I know my 1971 Raider 12 did not have the "T" bar either (that's the frame I used for the tricycle Charger)

I would say if the frame has the factory front Attach-Matic hitch / front axle mount, it should have the "T" bar. If not, the "T" bar was added later.

[baerpath 517]

Terry \

I have two C 120's One has the T bar holes and one doesn't

Model #'s are the same and both are tach-matic tractors so..... Tried figuring it out on another site last summer Figured just using the old frames out in my case.

Duane

[Kelly 1,030]

One of the frames the holes are all the way through the frame like they were drilled, the other frame one hole is only through one thickness of the frame, the trans mount where it wraps around the frame, I think I'd have to look at it to be sure, is the outer part and not drilled it acts like a stop for the bar, the other side has a bushing and a E clip to keep the bar from moving over, I'll go look again I maybe wrong. neither one has the front tach a mattic, they had the mule drive that bolted to the frame. I'm not trying to argue with you about this, In fact you are making me second guess myself. Terry you are making me think to hard.

Now I have to go look.

[Kelly 1,030]

Terry you must be right, and both of mine are add on's intead of going out in the cold I opened up my red binder for 71 tractors and looked, no T-bar listed for any tractor in 71. sorry for douting you , but the one looked so nice just like factory.

[TT-(Moderator) 1,147]

MAYBE (I doubt this, but it IS possible) the original frame broke and was replaced with a slightly newer one.

You know there are people out there that would do anything to keep an old Wheel Horse going forever.

My old neighbor has a 1973 14 automatic that now has a frame from a GT-1100 WorkHorse because he thought he was plowing snow with a D-9 CAT and broke the transaxle mounting plate clear off the angle iron! :D

[chargerbilt 0]

Is there anyway to tell from the outside if the trans has an 8 or 10 gear diff if the ID plate is gone from the tractor or if the tranny is out of the tractor??

Thanks.

[kpinnc 13,704]

Is there anyway to tell from the outside if the trans has an 8 or 10 gear diff if the ID plate is gone from the tractor or if the tranny is out of the tractor??

No way to tell the difference between a 4 and an 8, BUT- You can always find a 10-pinion.

Block the wheels up off the ground, so they are free to turn.

Rotate one wheel, so that the other rotates as well. If it turns the opposite direction- You've got a 4 or 8 pinion. If it turns the SAME direction, it's a 10 pinion.

Kevin

[can whlvr 993]

I was just wondering about the 4 pinion rear,if i have the holes in the differencial do you just slip in 4 more more pinions and does this make it stronger????

[kpinnc 13,704]

I was just wondering about the 4 pinion rear,if i have the holes in the differencial do you just slip in 4 more more pinions and does this make it stronger????

Most definitely.

[Coadster32 793]

Would the differential really be the weakest link that would give out first?? Seems to me like the belt would slip first. The way a 4 pinion rear is designed, the gears are well engaged, and the pinion shafts are well supported. The freewheeling gears on the cluster shaft, and the sliding gears of 2/3 and 1/R get rounded out from shifting, and I think they would give out before the pinions in the differential. Just my 2c worth.

[can whlvr 993]

I once left my 308 outside during a thaw then a refreeze thought i would just let the clutch out to break it free :: I thought the same thing that the belt would slip,NOTSO,stripped all 4 pinion gears,and cost me plenty,learned the hard way :whistle: