Motor stalls when PTO is engaged

[Heatingman 971]

Just got a model 10141

 

Dont know much about it. When I picked it up, the mower deck was not installed. So when I got it home, I sorted that out, and wanted to at least make sure it worked before sharpening blades and so forth.

 

I plan to use it. Best I can tell it was built in the 70’s and has a Kohler motor.

Anyhow, the motor runs well enough, and it drives just fine, so I can tell the motor itself can handle load.

 

But anytime I enage the PTO it seems to overload the motor right away. Figured it was something with the deck, but that all spins easily by hand.

 

So I removed the belt and tried again, and the result is the same. 
 

Is that being caused by the clutch assembly.

 

Its not an electronic seat safety issue, as there is not any of that on this machine.

 

Any help is much appreciated.

 

[Heatingman 971]

I take that back. There must be a seat switch. Found 2 wires running to the seat. And a switch near the pto engagement lever which releases when the lever is pushed forward.

 

If I trick that switch into thinking the pto level is in the disengagement position, then the tractor stays running.

 

Guess I will be looking for a seat switch.

 

Anyone know if the seat switch would be electrically open or closed for “safe” position?

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Heatingman
Clarity

[lynnmor 7,307]

 

Look in the manuals section to find the owners manual for the tractor, it should have the wiring diagram.  To better identify the tractor, perhaps you can post a photo.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

You have it figured out.

Pto switch powers ignition when pto is OFF

Seat switch powers ignition when pto is ON

Do not see a switch listed. Perhaps it was inside the seat so part of the seat. May have to adapt another NO (normally open) switch.

 

[Achto 27,600]

6 hours ago, Heatingman said:

Anyone know if the seat switch would be electrically open or closed for “safe” position?

 

I believe that the seat switch needs to be closed for the tractor to run when the PTO in on.

[Ed Kennell 38,209]

If the seat and PTO safety switches are working correctly,   you must be on the seat to start the engine and to engage the PTO.

 

 

 

to the 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Ed Kennell

[Heatingman 971]

30 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the seat and PTO safety switches are working correctly,   you must be on the seat to start the engine and to engage the PTO.

 

 

 

to the 

I would think so too, but that does not seem to be the case. 
 

But I will look for a schematic and see how it was wired to reverse engineer the sequence of operations.

 

 

[953 nut 55,296]

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

You have it figured out.

Pto switch powers ignition when pto is OFF

Seat switch powers ignition when pto is ON

 

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

If the seat and PTO safety switches are working correctly,   you must be on the seat to PTO OFF start the engine and in the seat to engage the PTO

 

7 hours ago, Heatingman said:

Anyone know if the seat switch would be electrically open or closed for “safe” position?

We need to know what type of ignition system you have to find the right seat switch. Not all  are wired alike.

On Wheel Horses that have a battery powered ignition system the seat switch will be N.O. (normally open with no load applied) and will supply a path for current  to the ignition coil when the PTO is on and there is an operator in the seat. Operator not in the seat and PTO on the seat switch opens and ignition quits working.

If you have a magneto or electronic trigger ignition system the seat switch will be N.C. (normally closed with no load applied) and will ground out the ignition system if the PTO is on and there is no operator in the seat. With an operator in the seat and the PTO on the ignition system will work as intended.

Please post a picture of the device or location where your spark plug wire goes so we can tell what type of ignition system yours is.

Edited June 30, 2022 by 953 nut

[Heatingman 971]

From the schematic I that was posted a few posts back, the pto safety switch and the seat switch are parellel wired, so as long as one or the other is made, then the ignition stays active.

 

That seems to jive with the discoveries made while troubleshooting last night.

 

I can post some pics when I get home this evening.

 

 

[peter lena 8,634]

 HEATINGMAN @ take advantage of your seat switch failure , replace it , and go on to do a total electrical check out , lots of chafing areas , corrosion , cracked electrical connections , check and verify , go to next check . you can be running with confidence as to a quick problem fix . good luck, pete 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

2 hours ago, Heatingman said:

From the schematic I that was posted a few posts back, the pto safety switch and the seat switch are parellel wired, so as long as one or the other is made, then the ignition stays active.

 

That seems to jive with the discoveries made while troubleshooting last night.

 

I can post some pics when I get home this evening.

 

 

The pto switch powers the starter circuit and the ignition circuit when the pto is OFF - both closed

When the pto is ON (both open) the seat switch must be closed for the ignition to be powered.

[Heatingman 971]

Seat switch is fine, connector is bad, one of the wires on the plug popped loose making little or no contact with the mating wire.
 

switch tested fine. 2.9 Meg ohms no pressure applied, 1.2 ohms pressure applied.

 

 

[peter lena 8,634]

@Heatingman take advantage of that connection failure / and recovery , and replace that connection , often stressed and electrically cracked . if it were me , I  would replace it ,  pete

[Heatingman 971]

6 hours ago, peter lena said:

@Heatingman take advantage of that connection failure / and recovery , and replace that connection , often stressed and electrically cracked . if it were me , I  would replace it ,  pete

I replaced the connection when I found it. Not the same connector, but I keep insulated male and female spades in stock, so I used those.

 

The rest of the wiring looks good.

 

Took the tractor for the first spin around the yard. Kinda surprised how peppy this old girl is with only 8 HP. Has as much Getty up as the modern John deer that came with the house (which I sold to the neighbor 2 years ago) I never liked it much. Worked well enough, but too much plastic. And I was (is) using a mowing service. And at the time was remodeling the house, so I didn’t have time to mow anyways. 

 

Probably gonna take the mower deck back off and tear it down, replace belts, sharpen the blades, etc…

 

kinda a shame we’re in a drought can’t really see how well in mows or not.

 

Either way pretty satisfied with my purchase. Probably could’ve negotiated down from $250.00, but the seller was a handicapped adult son living at home, whom takes things he finds on the road, gets em working enough to sell to help pay the expenses for his parents. So I figured his family needed the money more then me, and I still think it was a heck of a deal considering a junky plastic bottom of the line new riding mower is right around 2k.
 

Once I get this machine performing tip top, gonna tell the mowing service to take a break. 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Heatingman

[peter lena 8,634]

@ HEATINGMAN , glad to hear you are staying after it , if you do that deck tear down , do your self a favor ,and use lucas x-tra hd in the related , 8 bearings , 6 in deck , 2 in mule drive , probably all , 6203 ( 3/4 ) bearings , I  clean out and repack new bearings , 560 deg rated , polyurea grease , does not fail or make whiny noise under load . good talking ,  anything else , just ask , pete