K series Engine castings

[Pullstart 62,837]

@richmondred01  @76c12091520h @gwest_ca I’m tagging you looking for knowledge, though I know many other people may know this answer too.

 

I’m swapping engines that I believe both to be K241s.  They both came from C-101’s (shaker plate) that I tore down.  I needed to swap the drive pulley and see that both engine castings show K301.  Are these indeed 12 hp with K241 shrouds or was there a casting mistake?  The other engine has a missing tag on the shroud, but still shows K301 and definitely came from a C-101.

 

[richmondred01 2,237]

This isn’t uncommon.

Kohler didn’t stop the production line if they ran out of k241 blocks. They simply used the k301 block and bored it to the 10 hp spec.

The only true way to know is to remove the head and measure your bore.

 

K301 3.375

K241 3.251

[Pullstart 62,837]

Thanks @richmondred01!  This is not a performance oriented build, just a cruiser and light duty worker.  I’ll let it remain a mystery for now!

[stevasaurus 22,717]

@richmondred01 is absolutely correct.  Measuring the bore is the only way to tell what you have.  The K- 10, 12 & 14 hp blocks are the same block.  

[Pullstart 62,837]

I thought so, but figured I’d check 

[8ntruck 6,998]

Common blocks cast with different numbers used interchangeably.  Sounds like a common production solution - use whatever you got that will meet specs to fill up the truck waiting at the shipping dock.  

 

I was at a car show looking at the concourse entries.  These are the cars restored right down to the chalk and grease pencil marks used at the factory.  Nearby, a couple of guys were discussing if the date code and marking color on the windshield washer hoses was correct on one of the cars.  The guy I was with kind of chuckled and said to me that in 1968 on something like washer hose, the assembly plant would have used whatever was laying around to get the car completed.  Didn't matter that the car happened to be only one of 27 like it that were ever built - it was just another car they had to put together that day.

[stevasaurus 22,717]

@8ntruck  absolutely correct...it's all about greed and $$$.  Don't play the game and buy Garden Tractors...I don't think I can get into a Corvette at this stage in my life.  I can still get onto my 702. 

[Pullstart 62,837]

Then why even cast them in the first place with engine size?  Seems like a wasted step… 

[stevasaurus 22,717]

@Pullstart  Kevin, think of it like the Chevy's 283, or 327.  Probably had a bunch of blocks casts and then they found out they could bore it out to a 350.  What are you going to do???  Grind off the casting numbers???  No...you need to know where that block came from.  Your 350 was a 327.  

[8ntruck 6,998]

37 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Then why even cast them in the first place with engine size?  Seems like a wasted step… 

Might be a function of which pattern was used to make the sand casting mold.  They might have had a quantity of patterns with each number.  If production requirements were high, they might have put some "wrong number" patterns on the line to make the production requirements.  Somebody probably wrote a production deviation that management approved to keep things going.  

[stevasaurus 22,717]

 

Best drum solo ever!!

 

[stevasaurus 22,717]

They do not make them like this anymore!!  How old were you when you 1st heard this??  I was 18.

[adsm08 2,047]

52 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Then why even cast them in the first place with engine size?  Seems like a wasted step… 

 

28 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Might be a function of which pattern was used to make the sand casting mold.  They might have had a quantity of patterns with each number.  If production requirements were high, they might have put some "wrong number" patterns on the line to make the production requirements.  Somebody probably wrote a production deviation that management approved to keep things going.  

^This^

 

A lot of times two cast parts that are otherwise identical, but used for different applications, have something like an ID number or other identifying feature cast into them.

 

The early 302 blocks were identical to the 289, with the same part number. There were letter-code designations for the short concurrent run of production. Similarly, the casing for the M5OD transmission used for the Cologne V6s, one had a smooth bell, the other had ridges cast into it, like the edge of a quarter, because the 2.9 and 4.0 used the same bell pattern, but the 1st 2nd and 3rd gear ratios were different.

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,717]

        OK

[Tuneup 1,433]

Bore the heck out of it and fit a 14HP piston. All else the same, why not? Light duty and all that. Has anyone done this? On my 301s, there is plenty of meat around the cylinder at the base. As hard as these blocks are, probably fine and per the argument in this thread, likely the same casting.

[squonk 41,071]

I have had 2 69 Chevy Caprices in my life. 1st one  in HS with a 350 4bbl. Dual exhaust. Loved that car and I wrecked it the day before I left for college. 35 years ago I ran across another. 327 2bbl "Grandma car" Rear bumper and trunk caved in. Pulled the frame straightened the Qtrs. and another trunk lid. Put the same exhaust system on that I had before and a set of factory rally wheels. Got a free 4bbl intake so I went to a junkyard and got a Quadrejet, Factory air cleaner assembly and other misc. parts off of a Chevelle SS. Put everything on and it looked factory fresh. Took it to "All Chevy Sunday" in Syracuse and took 1st one year and 2nd another year in the full size car "stock" division. 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by squonk

[richmondred01 2,237]

FYI. Many don’t even have the casting model numbers and some have other casting numbers that I’ve been a loss to figure out for 50 years. 
I once asked an old timer back in the the 70’s this same question. He gave me a typical WW2 vet answer.  “I don’t know, who cares, measure the bore and get back to work.”  (I miss those guys. You knew were you stood with them. Nothing fake) 

[clueless 2,987]

23 hours ago, richmondred01 said:

FYI. Many don’t even have the casting model numbers and some have other casting numbers that I’ve been a loss to figure out for 50 years. 
I once asked an old timer back in the the 70’s this same question. He gave me a typical WW2 vet answer.  “I don’t know, who cares, measure the bore and get back to work.”  (I miss those guys. You knew were you stood with them. Nothing fake) 

 

[creighton trimble 8]

I was going to post something but I read and listened to post #11 and now forgot...

lol I remember delivering newspapers to all the WWII vets, seems like almost everyone was.

Some of my best qualities were instilled by these men and proud to say I taught my boys.