Drive pulley keeps spinning, causing gear grinding

[OutdoorEnvy 1,564]

So before I go guessing I want to check with the brain trust here!  So my 74 C-100 8 speed seems to grind with clutch all the way in right after coming to a stop.  I have to wait 5-10 seconds for the drive pulley to slow to a stop before I can shift gears with no grinding.  Function test looks normal but is there something wrong with the belt or is there something that should stop the pulley from moving sooner so you can shift clean with no grinding?  You can tell it's still spinning in the gear box as you can hear it.  My 312 I can switch gears instantly once stopped so I know this can't be normal. 

 

thanks for the help!

Edited June 28, 2022 by OutdoorEnvy

[Handy Don 12,444]

I think your question is "How do I get the belt to stop turning when I depress the clutch?"

 

I'm not real familiar with the C-100 but I know that most WH's of that era need the belt cover on and properly fitted with the tab that rubs on and stops the loosened drive belt. Your model may also have other guide bars and even a guide on the clutch idler pulley.

The belt may be too short to loosen adequately or the clutch idler pulley may not be moving far enough to fully loosen the belt.

Any of these missing or out of whack will keep the belt from slowing quickly.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Handy Don

[ebinmaine 68,260]

5 hours ago, Handy Don said:

the tab that rubs on and stops the loosened drive belt. Your model may also have other guide bars and even a guide on the clutch idler pulley.

Don's gotcha headed the right way I think. 

Check the position of the tab at the end of the belt GUARD/GUIDE (note they're 2 different words). 

Pull that off and check the idler pulley, it's swing arm, and it's tab as well. 

 

 

How old is the belt?

 

What BRAND is the belt?

I ask that way because I've had non OE belts fail to clutch properly. 

On my mid 70s C series I've switched over to using ONLY Wheelhorse brand belts. The price is about the same as most decent aftermarket ones.  

 

 

[rmaynard 15,588]

Hmm, do you have the belt guard on? 

[953 nut 55,744]

         If you push down on the clutch the lower half of your drive belt will go slack, if the belt guard is not catching the belt it will not stop moving as the engine drive pulley continues to pull it.

[oldlineman 1,482]

Pictures, as always would help tremendously. 

[Blasterdad 2,717]

Check tab bracket on clutch pulley, 1st pic shows clutch pushed all the way down, causing tab to pinch against guide, causing belt/pulleys to stop.

Second pic shows clutch about half way back, starting to engage the belt...

 

[ebinmaine 68,260]

12 minutes ago, Blasterdad said:

 

 

 

 

Later models that I've seen don't have that second lower forward tab.

The disengagement is done purely by the belt guide being the belt guard being the catcher for the belt. 

[Blasterdad 2,717]

7 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Later models that I've seen don't have that second lower forward tab.

The disengagement is done purely by the belt guide being the belt guard being the catcher for the belt. 

Pic is of a C-81, that "front tab" is the belt guide. it's bolted on the tractor, no guide on the cover, same principle though...

[ebinmaine 68,260]

3 minutes ago, Blasterdad said:

Pic is of a C-81, that "front tab" is the belt guide. it's bolted on the tractor, no guide on the cover, same principle though...

Oh oh oh...

I should clarify that when I wrote later models for some reason I was thinking that was a '60s picture and mine are from 1974, 75.

 

 

[Blasterdad 2,717]

'79 C-81  

[Blasterdad 2,717]

I just used it as an example because I just happend to have it in my shop with the cover off...

[OutdoorEnvy 1,564]

The belt guard panel is on.  I don't know if the guide tab things are on.  The clutch movement seems fine as it goes very slack when pushed in.  I'll look to see if the belt guide things are there and in position enough to contact the belt.  Seems it's something like that. 

 

I'm not sure on the belt brands.  this is the $25 rig so all is old.  the belt looks decent though with no cracks.  I'm guessing the belt guide tabs are gone or it's not routed correctly under one or something.  I'll follow up with update and pics if needed.

 

thanks all for the help!

[Blasterdad 2,717]

Cover is easy to remove, check the idler pulley itself too, good time to replace it while you have the cover off. 

[Rob J. 1,942]

Had same problem. Bought a non-Toro belt. Bought the Toro belt and problem solved. Both belts were same size but only one works. 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,564]

So here's some pics.  belt is routed correctly.  It seems the clutch has an adjustment that I can tighten from the clutch pedal, seen in last pic.  Am I wrong in tightening this rod a little then connecting back to the clutch petal?  The problem is definitely not enough tension on the belt pulley tab pressing down on the belt.  If I throttle all the way down there is enough tension to stop the belt.  Anything higher though it keeps turning.

 

First pic shows the clutch pulley and tension tab for the belt when it moves forward with clutch pressed down.

 

 

this pic shows the other tab that holds the belt up so it will be forced to take the tension.  It is hitting this when pressed down

 

 

Now last pic what should be an adjustment rod for the clutch tension.  Threading for adjustment is at the bottom of this pic

 

 

 

[wallfish 17,078]

That type of brace (Tension tab) over the belt on the idler pulley is adjustable by loosening the bolt. You can swivel it forward to grab the belt harder. But you do not want it touching the belt at all when the belt is tight and engaging the trans

Yes you can adjust the pedal as you described

Edited June 29, 2022 by wallfish

[Blasterdad 2,717]

7 hours ago, Rob J. said:

Had same problem. Bought a non-Toro belt. Bought the Toro belt and problem solved. Both belts were same size but only one works. 

Indeed, the wrong size belt will make it not work right, the correct length/width belt will be listed in the manuals section...

Edited June 29, 2022 by Blasterdad

[Horseoholic 185]

9 hours ago, wallfish said:

That type of brace (Tension tab) over the belt on the idler pulley is adjustable by loosening the bolt. You can swivel it forward to grab the belt harder. But you do not want it touching the belt at all when the belt is tight and engaging the trans

Yes you can adjust the pedal as you described

Question about the tab at the Idler pulley, I've been watching this post and reading other posts about belt / gear grinding issues because I'm one of these people having the same issue now on my 856 Wheel Horse , I replaced the belt with one of those "Blue" Kevlar belts (1/2' x 70") I believe this is my issue , I ordered a OEM Toro / Wheel Horse belt and have yet to put it on to try it out, about this idler pulley tab , mine is welded in place, I keep thinking I saw somewhere that Wheel Horse did this on some models , can you adjust position of this pulley tab by adjusting the clutch pedal  rod as mentioned here or maybe adjusting the nut/rod on the brake band? The belt cover "only" has one tab on it located at the front bottom side of guard closest to the engine pulleys. Sorry for Butting in on this thread with my issue , thought maybe any answers  could help out here or anyone else that has similar issues or questions. Thanks.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,090]

The rod on the left side from the pedal is adjustable to suit the height of the operator. It is not a clutch adjustment. Just positions the pedal location.

[wallfish 17,078]

9 minutes ago, Horseoholic said:

can you adjust position of this pulley tab by adjusting the clutch pedal  rod as mentioned here or maybe adjusting the nut/rod on the brake band?

Yes, the single pedal tractors ( clutch/brake) can be adjusted by the brake band rod to adjust the position of the idler pulley's forward stop position then the pedal position rod is adjusted so the pedal is in the correct position.  The brake band should engage the drum slightly after the belt slips and clutches the engine pulley.

The Kevlar belts work perfectly fine as all my tractors have them. Correct adjustments are the key to having any belt work correctly. Some OEM belts are fractional sizes so the length is different than what you can buy off the shelf. I refuse to pay $50 for a belt and prefer to buy them off the shelf and make a couple of adjustments

[953 nut 55,744]

Have you read the owner manual for your tractor and checked the gap between the belt and the belt guard? Page 16 of this manual provides very specific instructions for the guard. Your tractor is  NOT equipped with a single brake/clutch pedal so disregard any prior reference to that.

If the belt you have is a Kevlar or fabric 5L-820 / B-69 it should be fine for your application. I have been using the Tractor Supply Kevlar belts with good results. 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 29, 2022 by 953 nut
fat finger

[Handy Don 12,444]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

read the owner manual for your tractor

Seconded!

[OutdoorEnvy 1,564]

Thanks for the help and suggestions.  @953 nut that document references 1/32" clearance for the PTO belt guides.  Didn't mention the clearance for the drive belt.  Unless the manual is referencing the wrong picture as it's clearly the PTO belt and not the drive belt.  If the clearance is suppose to be 1/32" of an inch when running that seems very small were it would almost be rubbing all the time. mine is way off if that is the spec.  I'll keep tinkering with it and report back what worked and didn't work.  

 

I am aware this is not a single pedal tractor so no worries on confusion there.   

[peter lena 8,719]

@OutdoorEnvy in addition to  your issue , go over every intended movement area with an aerosol lubricant , make the rust run out , just an idea , pete