starter generator -volt meter

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

I believe that is what I had seen in the video. I have another regulator, a flat mount. Going to hook it up temporary and see what's, what

[Handy Don 11,881]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:56 PM, "Manic-Mechanic" said:

The bouncing voltmeter! Stays at 12 v...

 

Important not to lose sight of normal regulated S/G behavior.

The generator ALWAYS is generating on the Field terminal when it's turning and the voltage is proportional to the rotation speed. A proper regulator doesn't attempt to connect the F to the B until the voltage reaches the regulator's "minimum" -- I've read 13+ volts in various publications (the relay windings plus an adjustable resistor typically calibrate this on older, more maintainable regulators).

With sufficient RPM, while the battery is charging, the regulator allows regulated current to flow to the battery as a series of pulses at whatever voltage the generator is producing. Seeing an analog voltmeter waver as it attempts to average these mechanical pulses is common.

Once the battery reaches sufficient charge the regulator attenuates the current to almost nothing but the voltmeter can still be affected by the current-regulating function.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Handy Don

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Important not to lose sight of normal regulated S/G behavior.

The generator ALWAYS is generating on the Field terminal when it's turning and the voltage is proportional to the rotation speed. A proper regulator doesn't attempt to connect the F to the B until the voltage reaches the regulator's "minimum" -- I've read 13+ volts in various publications (the relay windings plus an adjustable resistor typically calibrate this on older, more maintainable regulators).

With sufficient RPM, while the battery is charging, the regulator allows regulated current to flow to the battery as a series of pulses at whatever voltage the generator is producing. Seeing an analog voltmeter waver as it attempts to average these mechanical pulses is common.

Once the battery reaches sufficient charge the regulator attenuates the current to almost nothing but the voltmeter can still be affected by the current-regulating function.

I get that, really do, however cannot explain why there is a drop in voltage while the generator is running and my warning light activating. I believe the Red generator is faulty. The Orange generator is producing charge at @ 14v, the warning light was not lit while charging, but is slightly warm to the touch. This may even be normal? I don't usually feel a generator while or even after running. Can I take out the armature from the Red generator and replace it with the armature from the Orange?

Edited June 26, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[pfrederi 17,514]

Belt off.  Remove the wire from the F terminal on the genny.  Apply 12v to the A terminal on the genny. She should spin up then remove the 12v from the A and ground the F terminal she should slow down really fast.

 

Am S/G is polarized every time you start it.

Thee terminal regulators work just fine.  You lose the L  (load terminal) just wire to the B for lights the lighter what ever.

 

If the generator spins as a starter but doesn't charge the issue is most like a bad field coil not the armature

Edited June 26, 2022 by pfrederi

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

40 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Belt off.  Remove the wire from the F terminal on the genny.  Apply 12v to the A terminal on the genny. She should spin up then remove the 12v from the A and ground the F terminal she should slow down really fast.

 

Am S/G is polarized every time you start it.

Thee terminal regulators work just fine.  You lose the L  (load terminal) just wire to the B for lights the lighter what ever.

 

If the generator spins as a starter but doesn't charge the issue is most like a bad field coil not the armature

Yes I did that exact test and it worked, but no charge. The spin and ground from A to F still work with bad Field coil? The Field Coil difficult to replace? I also could use the Orange generator, would need a new terminal, which I can purchase. (A whole rebuild kit) Then the 10/32 holes would need to be drilled, (remove armature first), lol

 

The orange generator is in need of some TLC, but does put out a good charge.

I would need to do some repairs, mounting holes, new terminals, rebuild kit minus coils. 

I should mention the volt gauge did not show voltage increase, remained at 12v regardless of my reading off the multimeter.

Also, the warning light remained off while charging as it should.

Edited June 26, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[pfrederi 17,514]

1 hour ago, "Manic-Mechanic" said:

Yes I did that exact test and it worked, but no charge. The spin and ground from A to F still work with bad Field coil? The Field Coil difficult to replace? I also could use the Orange generator, would need a new terminal, which I can purchase. (A whole rebuild kit) Then the 10/32 holes would need to be drilled, (remove armature first), lol

 

The orange generator is in need of some TLC, but does put out a good charge.

 

I would need to do some repairs, mounting holes, new terminals, rebuild kit minus coils. 

I should mention the volt gauge did not show voltage increase, remained at 12v regardless of my reading off the multimeter.

Also, the warning light remained off while charging as it should.

 

 

If grounding the field terminal made the generator stop spinning quickly it is working correctly as a generator and the issue would most likely be in the regulator or wiring

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

 

If grounding the field terminal made the generator stop spinning quickly it is working correctly as a generator and the issue would most likely be in the regulator or wiring

I will double check it this afternoon, make sure it stops quickly. I did use a different regulator once on the Red Generator and again on the Orange Generator.  It didn't make a difference on the Red Generator, worked on the Orange Generator. I will get one of them going! The Regulator that seemed to work on the Orange Genny is stand alone. I am hoping the saddle mount will work as it is easier to install, lol! Should the Red Genny pass the Test, then yes it is either the regulator or wiring, agreed.

Thanks again

Edited June 26, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[pfrederi 17,514]

Rune the test with out grounding the field terminate of the genny ...see how long it spinns after you remover the 12 volts from the A terminal.  Then repeat with grounding F Should be a huge diffrence

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Rune the test with out grounding the field terminate of the genny ...see how long it spinns after you remover the 12 volts from the A terminal.  Then repeat with grounding F Should be a huge diffrence

I did that, exactly with both generators and even twice to be certain. I can say they spun excellent and came to an electric halt! I even opened up the Orange Genny and it had brushes half worn but the terminal was attached to the windings so didn't want to try and replace that, nor drill & tap as the windings were glued right below the area. I just put it back together and tested it again.

So, the lovely Red Genny should be fine as per the test. I left contact areas bare metal and taped it off, it is now a flat Black Genny! I will install it and try the regulator with the saddle, if it fails, then it gets thrown in the pile, maybe look closer at the saddle mount see if it can be transferred. A stand alone regulator would require a flat area some where's? Be glad to get this baby up and running soon....

 

 

Thanks again

Edited June 26, 2022 by "Manic-Mechanic"

[adsm08 1,845]

10 hours ago, "Manic-Mechanic" said:

I get that, really do, however cannot explain why there is a drop in voltage while the generator is running and my warning light activating. I believe the Red generator is faulty. The Orange generator is producing charge at @ 14v, the warning light was not lit while charging, but is slightly warm to the touch. This may even be normal? I don't usually feel a generator while or even after running. Can I take out the armature from the Red generator and replace it with the armature from the Orange?

 

According to an AC Delco, bulletin I read on servicing these units a few years ago, it is normal for these S/G units to reach temps only a little lower than what the engine gets to. They can become quite warm during normal operation.

["Manic-Mechanic" 1,194]

Well, not hot enough for heat proof paint tho'. Here is the finished Genny ready to go back in.