Why Doesn't it Cut?

[GaryRat 31]

I have finally got my 1967 1277 Wheel Horse running and driving but what it will not do is cut grass!  When I first tried, I found the blades on upside down so the blades were beating the grass.  I took them off and sharpened them ( they were actually still quite sharp from being on backwards) and tried again.  The only change I see in the lawn is where the tires have flattened the grass to the ground - it is not cutting!  I have tried lowering the deck to the point that it would nearly scrape the grass from the soil but still no joy.  The right side blade rotates counter clockwise and the left side blade is clockwise so they will both push cut grass out the rear of the deck, if they only cut!  Do I need to run the motor at maximum rpm?  This does not make any sense to me as the blades are sharp enough that I cut myself putting them on and I'm a wee bit tougher than a blade of grass.

[lynnmor 7,302]

10 minutes ago, GaryRat said:

 Do I need to run the motor at maximum rpm? 

YES!

[squonk 41,040]

Any pictures of the deck and tractor? I know it sounds crazy but folks have gotten the deck drive belts on backwards so the deck spins the opposite direction it's supposed to.

[Achto 27,516]

 

Always run the motor max RPM when cutting grass. Max engine speed gives better lubrication to the engine and a better cut from the deck.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Achto

[JoeM 7,871]

53 minutes ago, Achto said:

Max engine speed gives better lubrication to the engine and a better cut from the deck

And provides the best cooling of the engine. 

The flywheel fan configurations are designed to be most efficient at the max RPM

[Pullstart 62,812]

1 hour ago, GaryRat said:

The right side blade rotates counter clockwise and the left side blade is clockwise

It seems like it would then take two different blades, which I haven’t seen before.  It might be worth taking a look at your belt routing diagram just to be sure.

[squonk 41,040]

The gear drive decks have a LH and RH blade. all of the other decks I'm aware of the blades turn in the same direction. A 1277 shouldn't be running a gear deck. 

[GaryRat 31]

Thanks for the replies!  

I seem to have a poorly adjusted throttle linkage and it is hard to control engine speed precisely.  Perhaps there is a tutorial on this website for adjusting the linkage?

Also, I'm pretty sure that blade rotation is correct and that the blades cutting edge is correct for the rotation.   The beveled side of the edge is on the top side of the blade when mounted.  The rear of the deck is open to allow for discharge and the blade spinning in the directions they are would facilitate rear discharge.  This machine has a gear driven deck so only one belt from the PTO to the deck. Perhaps it shouldn't have a gear driven deck but it does and it seems that is proper for this machine based on the pulley arrangement and all.   I'll get some pictures up today.

Edited June 21, 2022 by GaryRat

[Pullstart 62,812]

I found a picture from one of your earlier posts.  Normally they had a larger belt driven deck.  It would be nice to see the other side of the tractor…

 

 

[Pullstart 62,812]

This is a picture of what deck was typically on your machine…

 

 

[953 nut 55,120]

2 hours ago, GaryRat said:

right side blade rotates counter clockwise and the left side blade is clockwise

Is this a gear drive mower deck?

 

[Pullstart 62,812]

33 minutes ago, GaryRat said:

poorly adjusted throttle linkage

Not saying this is the fix, but we have a couple around the farm with clothespins for cruise control.  One to start, two for high setting.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,812]

Just now, 953 nut said:

Is this a gear drive mower deck?

yep.  See post 9, it’s a picture that was posted previously in the following thread:

 

 

[Pullstart 62,812]

it would be wise to check your governor setting too.  This is a K-181, but it’s the same principle.  Hold the throttle on the carb at wide open, rotate the governor shaft counter clockwise, tighten the clamp.
 

 

[squonk 41,040]

Make sure your LH blade is on the left and your RH blade is on the right. This is as sitting on the tractor

[GaryRat 31]

Pullstart, that is the deck on my 1968 Charger 12.  It is in rough shape and needs straightening, welding and new spindles.  It is why I snagged the 1277 as it was in overall better shape.  First two pictures are of the 1277 (at least that is what the decal on the hood says) the third  pic is of the Charger 12 deck/pulley arrangement.

[Pullstart 62,812]

The pulley setup on the first two pictures @GaryRat are custom for sure!  I bet that deck is zinging blade top speed though at WOT!  The drive pulley in a normal gear drive deck is about 2” so you’re right around double!

[Pullstart 62,812]

Also, if you type the “@“ sign, then start typing a name, it’ll have a drop down menu that allows you to tag a member 

[GaryRat 31]

Nothing on the 1277 looks custom to me.  All the brackets shafts etc. look like factory made stuff to me.  If they are "zinging" why don't they cut? As far as custom stuff goes, I like the floorboards the Charger 12 has and would like to fabricate something similar for the 1277, if I can get it to cut.

[Handy Don 12,174]

15 minutes ago, GaryRat said:

Nothing on the 1277 looks custom to me.  All the brackets shafts etc. look like factory made stuff to me.  If they are "zinging" why don't they cut? As far as custom stuff goes, I like the floorboards the Charger 12 has and would like to fabricate something similar for the 1277, if I can get it to cut.

The 3-blade, belted deck was available on late short frame tractors with an optional kit to use the "bell" PTO. Looks like you have one of those!

[Lee1977 6,648]

Did you check the PTO clutch the old linings were riveted on. if its down to the rivets it isn't going to to work.

[GaryRat 31]

Tried mowing today with the rpms up and maybe a slight improvement in cutting but still not good.  The comment about my blades zinging along because of the large pulley actually points out what may be the problem.  The six inch pulley that is on there now would mean the blades were spinning much slower than they should if the correct pulley was indeed smaller.  The way it is now I am essentially 1:1 Motor rpm = blade rpm.  Do I need a smaller pulley?

[Handy Don 12,174]

On 6/21/2022 at 12:06 PM, GaryRat said:

.

  

 

Is this the setup that is misbehaving? 

Those 2-blade, geared decks would normally be driven from a 2.5" engine pulley to the 3" outer groove of a 3-groove pulley. So 2.5:3 is a slight step down. The other two grooves look like 3.25 and match the 3.25 on the deck drive shaft so 1:1 there.

It looks like the extra large pulley on the deck input shaft is there to provide the same step down but from the larger (4"?) PTO bell pulley. To get the same ratio the lower pulley should be 1.2x the upper pulley (4 x 1.2 = 4.8"). If you have a 6" pulley, the blades are turning about 20% slower than they should.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Handy Don

[GaryRat 31]

Thanks for all the help!  Sadly, my newly rebuilt Kohler has suffered a catastrophic failure.  I had a new piston (sized appropriately for wear which there was none) and rings, crank bearings and all gaskets replaced.  The weeds were getting quite tall and while my neighbor sometimes takes pity on me and mows my part of the lawn, this time he did not.  The 1277 Automatic was plowing through the stuff and cutting most of it but leaving a number of blades of grass unscathed - it looks bad.  Then there was a loud bang and the motor coasted to 0 rpm and stopped.  It would not start again and it sounded as though there was no compression.  My mechanic friend stopped by and confirmed what I thought that it had blown the connecting rod.so now I have to pull the motor and have him replace the rod which he said he would do for the cost of parts only.  I'm not quite sure what to do with the tractor once the engine is repaired since I don't believe it can cut grass to make a lawn look good.  Looks like I'll be rebuilding the deck on the Charger 12 as that did cut pretty good before I lost a spindle (now two spindles).

I did buy a White 833R powered walk behind mower for just a few dollars but can't get it started as there is no spark.  I believe it has electronic or solid state ignition and I thought those things did not crap out.

[Rick3478 428]

On 6/21/2022 at 8:28 AM, GaryRat said:

The right side blade rotates counter clockwise and the left side blade is clockwise so they will both push cut grass out the rear of the deck, if they only cut!

I'm a bit late to the party, but just saw this post.  From what perspective is your rotation?  Looking down from the top, shouldn't the left side turn counter and the right side be clockwise?  Any chance you just have the blades on the wrong sides?