davem1111 2,030 #1 Posted June 20, 2022 I'm starting this thread here to preserve a converstation that started in "What have you done with your wheel horse today?" Lots of good advice from @ebinmaine. Rather oddly, the tractor is running fine at all throttle levels today. But I still want to figure out the wiring on this beast. So I don't need any further help at the moment, but any experiences or ideas are always welcome. (Note: I may have referred to this engine as a GX630 elsewhere, but I was confused. It is a GX610). ---------------------------------------------- 9 hours ago, davem1111 said: ... the GT-1848 decided to stop running so I had to tow it back in with the 312-A. I'll probably post some questions about the Honda engine's misbehavior, but I haven't done any troubleshooting yet. May be another case of failed fuel pump (I have aftermarket electric pumps on both the 312-A and the 416-8, and they work great), but there seems to be at least some gas moving through the filter. Might be a carb teardown/clean, but it dies when I increase the throttle. It's been running a bit rough at lower throttle levels. ---------------------------------------------- 8 hours ago, ebinmaine said: I was told two or three decades ago that you have to do ALL the maintenance before you can do ANY of the troubleshooting. I agree that you need to do a carb rebuild and I would add to that, replace every inch of fuel line and a new fuel filter. Definitely a possibility that your fuel lines or gunk in the tank is sending stuff into the carburetor. ---------------------------------------------- 7 hours ago, davem1111 said: Great advice. However, I didn't mention that while I had the seat, fender and side guard off to replace the ruined drive belt idler and belt, I had found that the fuel cut-off (screw-type) valve didn't work anymore, so I replaced it with a used one that worked because I didn't have another new one on hand, and replaced the whole fuel line up to the filter on the engine side. (I had the foresight to buy a long spool of good fuel line a while back). I had already replaced the filter between the engine and battery area, and the shorter line between that and the fuel pump, right after I got the tractor. I was wondering about the fact that after the fuel line comes through the body near the steering column, it has to travel uphill to the filter and pump, so the pump is sucking gas upward, and the filter never seems to have more than 3/8" - 1/2" of fuel in it even when running. Should this be arranged so the fuel line comes through and goes up, then down through the filter? It would seem odd because it ran fine with this same arrangement before. I also know it's been recommended to put a filter back near the tank and cut-off valve and then another up near the engine, which I'm not opposed to. But I suppose the first thing I should do is confirm that I get a good solid gravity flow of fuel out of the tank when the valve is fully open. I also noticed a mention of an air vent in the fuel cap... this cap is not in great shape and such a vent could be plugged up. I should also mention that this Honda GX610 engine seems to require 2 additional on/off toggle switches on the dash (at least, the way they wired it) - who ever replaced the engine installed these but didn't label them. I've been looking for a wiring diagram for this engine but haven't found anything yet that mentions these. Engine won't shut off when you turn off the key, have to toggle at least one of these off to kill the engine, and at least at one point it didn't seem to run or run right with one on and one off - I've been filcking them both on and off every time. But again, it had been running fine (if a bit rough at lower throttle, but fine at full throttle) before the recent work. Seat switch and clutch/brake switch have been disabled by someone previously, so the engine can start and PTO can be engaged while standing next to the tractor, which I know is a safety issue, but also that some faulty wiring could be causing issues. My guess at this poing is poor fuel flow and/or carb. Going on another trip later this week so I may not have much time to mess with it until the first weekend of July... ---------------------------------------------- 4 hours ago, ebinmaine said: If you haven't already done so it would be a great idea to start a separate thread on this tractor so the work you do doesn't get lost in this giant thread quite so easily. I would have near zero concern about the actual level of the fuel in the fuel filter itself as long as gas is flowing through it freely and happily. I'm not familiar with the fuel filter or fuel pump setup on those engines. I'm wondering if the fuel pump could be disassembled and cleaned out like it can on an old Kohler engine? I think you'll find that once you assure good flow from the tank, clean gas going forward, and rebuild the carb... That may eliminate whatever issues you're having. As to the electrical wiring... Perhaps there is a dealer Network that could help with how that thing SHOULD HAVE been wired? My own inclination would be to make a very carefully drawn out schematic diagram of the existing circuits as they are in the tractor right now. I don't have much of any concern for safety switches because Trina and I are the only two that drive our tractors except on very rare and supervised conditions. No inexperienced drivers and no children are EVER around them. That said, when I got my 1975 Automatic I left the safety switches in place because I'm not used to driving that tractor. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #2 Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) I'll ask 1 question before I shut up... I think this tractor is a candidate, and I certainly want this tractor in the "Repower" index thread... Would you throw your tractor in this thread, with some pictures, Dave, whenever you get a chance? 8 minutes ago, davem1111 said: Lots of good advice from @ebinmaine. P.S. (excellent advice from Eric is the 'norm' around here...) Eric, Jeff, Kevin... all excellent people. Don Edited June 20, 2022 by Snoopy11 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davem1111 2,030 #3 Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said: I'll ask 1 question before I shut up... I think this tractor is a candidate, and I certainly want this tractor in the "Repower" index thread... Would you throw your tractor in this thread, with some pictures, Dave, whenever you get a chance? For sure, happy to do that. I'm sure it will get some laughs when everyone sees the pressure-treated 2x4's the engine is mounted on. When I have some time to do some "serious" welding, I will probably see if I can rectify that situation... 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,905 #4 Posted June 21, 2022 I believe this is a magneto engine. It’ll need an ignition switch with a M on it. To prove this, heck to see if the “kill” switch is grounded. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,016 #5 Posted June 21, 2022 Pressure treated 2x4 engine mounts. Some sort of anti vibration system? 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill D 1,926 #6 Posted June 21, 2022 5 hours ago, davem1111 said: For sure, happy to do that. I'm sure it will get some laughs when everyone sees the pressure-treated 2x4's the engine is mounted on. When I have some time to do some "serious" welding, I will probably see if I can rectify that situation... That might explain the drive belt issues you were having. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill D 1,926 #7 Posted June 21, 2022 3 hours ago, Pullstart said: I believe this is a magneto engine. It’ll need an ignition switch with a M on it. To prove this, heck to see if the “kill” switch is grounded. Find an original wiring harness for that GT1848. Take the wire that feeds the light switch and put it to the A terminal on the ignition switch. Everything thing else should hook right up to the Honda. The original Briggs had a separate AC feed for the headlights that came directly from the stator. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davem1111 2,030 #8 Posted June 21, 2022 12 hours ago, 8ntruck said: Pressure treated 2x4 engine mounts. Some sort of anti vibration system? Probably more like a lazy man's way of mounting a non-standard engine. At least he used PT wood. This thing sat outside for a while, I think. Non-PT would probably have rotted by now. Not being too derogatory here - I've often just used what I have on hand for "quick fixes", but that new engine probably cost over $2000, so you'd think welding up a proper metal mounting plate would have been part of the deal. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,083 #9 Posted June 21, 2022 Magneto engines are fairly simple. I'd try the keyswitch, and look for anything grounded by accident. A bare wire that flops around will make you crazy, because grounding the coils is what shuts it off. If you can't find a harness, it's simple enough just to make one. If the engine turns over, you should get spark on both cylinders. A coil pack going bad can definitely cause intermittent issues too. Unlike an opposed twin, a v-twin will not run well or at all on one cylinder. I'd replace the keyswitch, then three wires can run the engine: battery, starter solenoid, and ground for the coil packs. Make sure your ground is good, or you won't be able to shut it down... Coil packs would be next if no change. They can get expensive, but there are usually oodles of them available online for less $$$. I'm not familiar with Honda carbs, but new fuel line and pulse pumps are cheap and always a good thing to check. Vanguards have a known issue where the large oil sump gasket fails, and the end result is too much crankcase pressure that makes the pulse pump push too much fuel. This in turn overpowers the float in the carb and the engine spits and sputters after a few minutes and is extremely sensitive to motion because the bowl is overfilled. I have one doing it, and I'm gonna try an electric pump- if I ever get time to tinker again... Point being, simple things can make a V-twin finicky. Don't give up on a good engine. Hondas have a good reputation and I'm sure you'll figure it out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #10 Posted June 21, 2022 20 hours ago, davem1111 said: Engine won't shut off when you turn off the key, have to toggle at least one of these off to kill the engine, and at least at one point it didn't seem to run or run right with one on and one off - I've been filcking them both on and off every time. Kevin called it... Sounds like one of them is a grounding switch... (grounding the coil, that is)... I'm wondering if the switch itself is some sort of aftermarket that didn't come with a ground lead... (to ground the coil)... Could also be a bad switch... (ground lead no longer functioning in the switch)... or someone who couldn't figure out the switch... or even preference when they swapped the engine. Some people think it's cool to shut the engine down with a switch... and have to flip it up to start it... (un-grounding the coil)... Certainly an anti-theft device... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,083 #11 Posted June 22, 2022 10 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: Certainly an anti-theft device... I've had many of those.... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
