42" RD 15-42RC01 refresh started - lift bracket carnage

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

 

I 'think' that is the serial number from what I can see.  Does the "RC" in the model number indicate that this is a "Recycler" deck?  There's no evidence of there ever having been the baffles installed on this one.

 

I tore down the 42" RD I picked up along with my C-125 last year.  There were huge chunks of rust on the bottom of the deck, but it still seems structurally sound for the most part.  The spindles seem fine but they'll come apart for inspection later.

 

Here's what I found on the lift brackets:

 

One bracket was broken, the other well on it's way... yellow arrows pointing to cracks...

 

 

The unbroken one is bent, and it's clear that the other one had also bent before it broke.

 

 

This is my first 42" and what I'm wondering is if this is par for the course with these?  

 

This is the same location (rear apron) that the 48" decks crack, and the reason WH added the thick metal plate under this area which this deck has.

 

It seems as though adding the plate only 'moves' the stress to other parts such as the brackets.

 

I'm going to repair these and sandwich a plate on top and maybe add a gusset to the bracket.  Something like this:

 

  [edit: see below... no can do... gauge wheel rod is in the way, need to come up with "Plan B"]

 

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Goldnboy 920]

I believe I have two of them in this picture of misc parts

[daveoman1966 3,751]

PARTS 107511 AND 107512.  I have them from an older 42" deck and can send them to you...with the square reinforcement plates.  None is bent broken or cracked.

$47 shipped to usa zips. 

[JoeM 7,874]

7 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

maybe add a gusset to the bracket.

Jeff does the gauge wheel shaft run over the top of the bent area?

or

 

Just thinking

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

@Goldnboy @daveoman1966

 

Thanks guys!  I've already repaired the ones I have, they'll probably hold up if I reinforce them... but that's the trouble actually!

 

I can't put anything on TOP of the bracket because there is already barely room for the nut and bolt already with the rod for the gauge wheels installed.  I'm glad I thought to check before I welded a piece on!  But, I'll figure something out...

 

 

 

It appears that there is 'forward pull' on these brackets when the deck is lifted, or even when mowing, as this is where the deck is 'pulled' forward from,  same as on the 48" deck that I reinforced over the winter. 

 

 

That's what caused these to crack I believe.  

 

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

16 minutes ago, JoeM said:

does the gauge wheel shaft run over the top of the bent area?

 

It does... and that's why there's no room to strengthen the bracket by scabbing a coupon on top of it!

 

 

[JoeM 7,874]

7 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

That's what caused these to crack I believe. 

for sure

and one good hit in the front of the deck or in some cases several 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

for sure

and one good hit in the front of the deck or in some cases several 

 

Funny thing is that the shell doesn't seem to have any evidence of that being the case!  It's straight as can be.  A hit or hits hard enough to bend those thickazz brackets would surely show something on the front.

 

 

[cod 120]

8 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

@Goldnboy @daveoman1966

 

Thanks guys!  I've already repaired the ones I have, they'll probably hold up if I reinforce them... but that's the trouble actually!

 

I can't put anything on TOP of the bracket because there is already barely room for the nut and bolt already with the rod for the gauge wheels installed.  I'm glad I thought to check before I welded a piece on!  But, I'll figure something out...

 

 

 

It appears that there is 'forward pull' on these brackets when the deck is lifted, or even when mowing, as this is where the deck is 'pulled' forward from,  same as on the 48" deck that I reinforced over the winter. 

 

 

That's what caused these to crack I believe.  

 

 

 

 

A random thought.

 

Any chance that instead of using the carriage bolt and nut, you could thicken the tab that mounts on the deck and thread it?  You'd still have to run the bolt up from the bottom side of the deck but it looks like you've got a 3/8 to 1/2 gap over the bracket now. Perhaps a thicker and wider tab would reinforce that whole area.

 

Good luck!

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

6 hours ago, cod said:

could thicken the tab that mounts on the deck and thread it? 

 

Good thought!  Gonna think about it some.  Downside to that would mean that a hex head bolt would be sticking out into the discharge path rather than a smooth carriage bolt.

 

I'm probably just going to cut a rectangular coupon to sit on top of the bracket so both bolts pass through it, no welding for now, and hopefully I'll still be able to get the lower nut on.  There should be enough clearance for that to fit under the gauge wheel rod.

 

Since nobody has replied that they've also seen the same issue, I'm going to assume that it is not a rampant issue and was caused by some sort of abuse that a P.O. inflicted and hope it doesn't happen again.  If it does, then I'll look for a more extreme solution.

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Downside to that would mean that a hex head bolt would be sticking out into the discharge path rather than a smooth carriage bolt.

 

Actually... I must not have noticed when I disassembled the deck, but the two bolts under the gauge rod HAD to be facing down with the nut on the underside, because the nut and bolt already do not fit facing UP !

 

Soooo... Since those two have to face down anyway, I will have room to scab a piece of steel on top of the bracket for some extra strength.

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Today I made up a pair of 'sandwich' plates that fit on top of the brackets from some fairly thick steel.  Installing the carriage bolt with the head on top it just clears the gauge wheel rod.  I'm going to try this idea first and see how it holds up.

 

It occurs to me that the bolt head being against the gauge wheel rod will actually help the situation by spreading some amount of the 'pull' to the gauge rod brackets.

 

        

Tomorrow should be good weather so I'm going to start cleaning up the shell getting ready for paint...

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

22 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Tomorrow should be good weather so I'm going to start cleaning up the shell getting ready for paint...

 

Had a dentist appointment this AM... (Look Ma!  No cavities!)  got a late start but managed to get the 'first pass' of the rust removal completed.  I'm going to go over the whole thing at least one more time.

 

Found a few pinholes but nothing I'm concerned about, the deck is still in pretty good shape.  Tis a shame that some people never clean their bottoms...  

 

 

This shows better the extent of how much rust there was, and how much metal has been lost.  The rust flaked off in huge thick 'slabs'.  I was really afraid that there wouldn't be enough metal left to save.  The rust that flaked off easily could have filled a 5 gallon bucket.

 

 

Wish I had a sand blaster!  I'm going to acid etch this before POR-15 coating.

 

I didn't take any pics of the top, but I ended up stripping that to bare metal also.  I was only going to spot grind where the rust was obvious but once I got started following the rust UNDER the paint, it just didn't make sense to not strip the whole thing.  Rust is like an iceberg... 90% of it is hidden !  I'll acid etch that also, but it's going to get painted with Rustoleum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[daveoman1966 3,751]

SUGGESTION:  While you have this stripped, consider making a Stainless Steel liner for it.  I did this same thing to my 48" deck back in the early 90s...and there is NO RUST on it whatsoever.  (1)make a carboard template of the bottom...marking all the drill holes ...and spindle holes, of course. (2)Transfer the cardboard template to a sheet of SS...16 to 20 guage. (3) from same sheet of SS, cut a strip 1" wider than the 'apron' (front edge) & long enough to form the 'apron'. (4) Cut 1" into the edges of this strip so that it will 'curl' around the apron...with the 1" extra laying flat on the deck shell. (5) The first SS template will lay flat on top of this 1" extra width...keeping it secure.  (6)Bolt everything back in place, then MAYBE drill (3 or 4) 1/4" dia holes in the 'apron' using SS bolts /nuts  to keep it from moving around. This sounds complicated, but it really isn't.  Once done, NEVER concern yourself about rust...NEVER AGAIN.   

Edited June 23, 2022 by daveoman1966

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

12 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

SUGGESTION

 

Sounds like a great idea Dave.  I wonder where I could source a sheet of SS and how much it would cost today... I'll ask Mrs. Google.

 

Have you had the liner out at any time since installed?  No moisture or 'crud' can get behind it and be trapped in there?

 

I was thinking of picking up some zinc sheet material.  I have a roof that I need to install some strips on to keep the lichens and fungus from growing... and thought that I could cut strips to sandwich between the brackets and the shell to keep the rust at bay.  VW does this with their cars... seems to work becuz there is ZERO rust on my '87.

 

 

[daveoman1966 3,751]

(1) You could probably source the SS at any local metal fabricating shops...or even a tool & die shop.  I worked at a Tool & Die shop when I did this and they got the SS for me...no charge.  (2)as to the moisture thing: before I bolted in the SS template, I had used auto undercoating spray on the shell. (Have never taken the SS shiel off..no reason to do so.)  There really is no reason for moisture to accrue. Every couple years, I take the deck off, stand it on end, and pour used oil in between the SS sheet and the deck sheetmetal...at the discharge chute....let it stand on end for a while for the oil to saturate.  (3) Zinc??  grass in kinda acidic and I don't know how well the zinc would hold up over the years.     

      

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

42 minutes ago, daveoman1966 said:

Zinc??  grass in kinda acidic and I don't know how well the zinc would hold up over the years.     

      

 

I wouldn't be putting it on the bottom, but rather on top, between the brackets and the shell.  Just a 'coupon' of the material sandwiched between.  The idea is that it's intended to be sacrificial.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 6/22/2022 at 7:20 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

Installing the carriage bolt with the head on top it just clears the gauge wheel rod.

 

If it hits or is a little too close for your liking... you could always grind the top off a tiny bit...

 

 

Don

 

 

[Bill D 1,920]

3 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Had a dentist appointment this AM... (Look Ma!  No cavities!)  got a late start but managed to get the 'first pass' of the rust removal completed.  I'm going to go over the whole thing at least one more time.

 

Found a few pinholes but nothing I'm concerned about, the deck is still in pretty good shape.  Tis a shame that some people never clean their bottoms...  

 

 

This shows better the extent of how much rust there was, and how much metal has been lost.  The rust flaked off in huge thick 'slabs'.  I was really afraid that there wouldn't be enough metal left to save.  The rust that flaked off easily could have filled a 5 gallon bucket.

 

 

Wish I had a sand blaster!  I'm going to acid etch this before POR-15 coating.

 

I didn't take any pics of the top, but I ended up stripping that to bare metal also.  I was only going to spot grind where the rust was obvious but once I got started following the rust UNDER the paint, it just didn't make sense to not strip the whole thing.  Rust is like an iceberg... 90% of it is hidden !  I'll acid etch that also, but it's going to get painted with Rustoleum.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also consider coating over the POR 15 with spray on bed liner in a can.  I did this on my Bobcat deck build.  So far so good.  It adds an additional layer of protection for the POR.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Here's the top side:

 

 

 

OTHER THAN SANDBLASTING, or a needle scaler (which would take forever!) has anyone come up with a good way to get into the craters to clean those out ?

 

 

Or, is this 'good enough' that the acid etch will take care of it ?

 

Should I hit it with some "Evapo Rust" before the acid etch? or is that basically the same thing?

 

 

 

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

There's this stuff called 'CRC rust converter' which paints on with a brush and once dry leaves a black coating which can be left as is or can be used as primer.

[drewd 55]

On 6/19/2022 at 10:30 AM, Jeff-C175 said:

Since nobody has replied that they've also seen the same issue, I'm going to assume that it is not a rampant issue and was caused by some sort of abuse that a P.O. inflicted and hope it doesn't happen again.  If it does, then I'll look for a more extreme solution.

Jeff, I am restoring (or trying to) a 42 SD deck that has been really abused by PO.  Pitted very badly and cracked.  Not on the lift connections but where the height adjustment brackets attach.  The front exit side of the deck was pushed in quite a bit.  I screwed the deck to the floor of my shed and with bottle jack got it close to normal.  With the abuse (and more) listed my lift brackets are not bent at all. 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

24 minutes ago, drewd said:

Not on the lift connections but where the height adjustment brackets attach

 

There is some bending of the deck shell at those points also, but not bad, and not cracked, thankfully.

 

Same where the front and rear lift brackets attach.  It's clear that the lift brackets both pull 'inward' based on how the deck is bent 'down' at these points.

 

The rear brackets already have a thick metal piece that runs the length between them (the black outline) and I need to look at that because it's unclear to me how the deck shell could bend if there's a thick metal backup there.  Perhaps it's not big enough...  and... who knows? ... maybe a P.O. had let the hardware loosen up ?  That could certainly cause the issue I'm seeing.

 

 

I'll be putting 'coupons' of metal under the front brackets as I did on my 48" recently.

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

you could always grind the top off a tiny bit...

 

Won't be necessary...  it just touches and will provide some added support by doing so.  Won't hurt the rod, that's for sure!

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

27 minutes ago, drewd said:

I screwed the deck to the floor of my shed and with bottle jack

 

Thanks Drew,  I'm going to remember this for future use!  Good idea!

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, sjoemie himself said:

There's this stuff called 'CRC rust converter' which paints on with a brush and once dry leaves a black coating which can be left as is or can be used as primer.

 

My only trepidation to this would be the question of whether or not it would be compatible with the POR-15.

 

The POR kit comes with a bottle of 'cleaner' to be used first, and then a bottle of acid etch to be used after cleaning.  Then top coat with the POR.

 

The acid etch DOES turn any remaining rust black, I'm sure it has phosphoric acid and probably some sulfuric also... as does the CRC product (I just checked the safety sheet to see what's in it).  But the instructions for the POR say to wash it off after it's been applied and sitting for a period of time on the bare metal.

 

I used some of the POR acid etch 'leftover' when I did the fender pan for my C-125 which was similarly 'cratered' and top coated that with Rustoleum and it seems to be holding up fine.  The acid etch seems to penetrate the craters just fine so I'll probably just get as much off with the abrasive pads I use and then follow the POR instructions.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Jeff-C175