TJ5208 1,824 #1 Posted June 16, 2022 I'm going to throw this directly at @Snoopy11 can you super charge a Wheel Horse will it help with performance will you gain power I've been talking to @857lover and @danweikert21 that's a question we had. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,571 #2 Posted June 16, 2022 16 minutes ago, TJ Salyers said: can you super charge a Wheel Horse Yes you can. May have to re-deck the piston to drop the compression depending on how much boost your compressor make. You will gain HP but you will sacrifice longevity of the engine life. It would not be an engine that I would want to rely on. Better off shaving the head, changing the cam, and leaving it naturally aspirated in my opinion. Adding a super charger or adding any performance hop ups brings me back to my favorite engine formula ( HP = $ ) This formula applies to all engines. $ to build it. $ to operate / feed it $ to maintain it 4 6 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJ5208 1,824 #3 Posted June 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, Achto said: Yes you can. May have to re-deck the piston to drop the compression depending on how much boost your compressor make. You will gain HP but you will sacrifice longevity of the engine life. It would not be an engine that I would want to rely on. Better off shaving the head, changing the cam, and leaving it naturally aspirated in my opinion. Adding a super charger or adding any performance hop ups brings me back to my favorite engine formula ( HP = $ ) This formula applies to all engines. $ to build it. $ to operate / feed it $ to maintain it Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,625 #4 Posted June 16, 2022 @TJ Salyers agree with @Achto on the reliability and probable failure related problems with supercharging . from what I have regularly seen on lawn tractor , " maintenance " , its more of a brag of neglect and abuse than care . don't know what kind of a set up you have up , with yard or tractor . but regular thorough service , lubrication , deck maintenance and lubrication , deck cleaning , noisy deck bearings , mule drive bearings noise. more hp , will only lead to more problems. just my own opinion , pete 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldWorkHorse 3,045 #5 Posted June 16, 2022 I just saw some videos with a supercharger called amr500 for like 200$ and I was thinking of doing this as well 😅 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #6 Posted June 16, 2022 @TJ Salyers I guess it would make it easier to burn the tires off the rims! 1 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwell-8 4,275 #7 Posted June 16, 2022 Definitely possible, but you will have to get a blow-trough carb or do fuel injection. Would be easier to make consistent boost then using a turbo. The AMR 300 and 500's where used on small Asian engines that have a max displacement by law of 600cc. The question is, how much boost can a Kohler or Onan take before the rods leave the party. 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #8 Posted June 16, 2022 This isn't the first time this topic has arisen... One very important thing to note about roots style blowers is that they do rob a good amount of power to drive them... so just like any small engine... the power it takes to drive it somewhat outweighs the power output of the blower. In my opinion, the best power output that you could get with a blower would come on a v-twin engine. Having said that... you would definitely want to pick an engine that you could buy parts for... forged or billet rods, (preferably forged piston tops), heavy duty wrist pins, forged crankshaft, stainless valves with... I'd probably go with 65+++ LB valve springs, hard face welded cam, billet roller rockers, ported heads, billet flywheel, dual carb kit, etc etc etc. Then you have to force fuel into the carb via a high performance fuel pump. 4 hours ago, Achto said: Adding a super charger or adding any performance hop ups brings me back to my favorite engine formula ( HP = $ ) This formula applies to all engines. $ to build it. $ to operate / feed it $ to maintain it Precisely. By the time you built the engine itself... you may be too tired to supercharge it... ha ha... plus... I think it would cost over 2,000$ to actually do it right... Supercharging an engine, increasing power output, or increasing RPMs isn't something you want to do half-butt. It could easily turn into a grenade and hurt/kill users. 12 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said: how much boost can a Kohler or Onan take before the rods leave the party. NAILED IT... Max... We already have this problem with naturally aspirated engines... how much pressure can you put on them before the rods give up... engine lugging... rpm's... etc... what can you do before it grenades. Here is the deal... anyone who modifies engines, and plans to have them around for a while needs to understand that things have to be done right. It isn't something that you build, then go have fun and never have to worry about it again. You have to continuously maintenance them, check them etc. You know how often I check rod torque, valve lash, compression, etc... on my performance engines? EVERY MONTH!!! With modifying engines comes a lot of time, money, and care. Personally, having performance engines in my possession... and having built quite a few of them... there is no mechanical reason to supercharge any small engine. With a 457, I get instant power... up to 7650 RPM... no bogging, no backing down. The engine hits peak RPM and power in 1/2 a second. With my Tillotson, it is the same story... just a tiny bit more lag in higher gears. Still... even being half the size of the 457... that Tilly 212 is pretty sick... almost hitting 9,000 RPM... Bottom line... supercharging is for the big-dogs... Yote swaps... LS base engines... etc... Just not logical for small engines, in my opinion. Attainable? Yes. Logical? no. Not intended to offend anyone, just giving my analysis from a performance standpoint. Don 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,857 #9 Posted June 16, 2022 18 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: Bottom line... supercharging is for the big-dogs... Yote swaps... LS base engines... etc... A Chevy loves boost and stays quite reliable within reason! 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #10 Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Pullstart said: A Chevy loves boost and stays quite reliable within reason! Yep, and it's got the bottom end to back it up... along with proper tuning. I don't think people realize how quickly things can go wrong with boost and even the slightest lean condition... Don Edited June 16, 2022 by Snoopy11 Supercharged a word... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #11 Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) @Jeff-C175... shhh... I'm busy trying to research how to supercharge my push-mower... AND MY WEED-EATER!!! Matter of fact... while I'm at it... I might just supercharge my air compressor in the shop and maybe even the air conditioning in the Ranger.... Don Edited June 16, 2022 by Snoopy11 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #12 Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) AND... to trim my fruit trees... And to move the big piles of leaves I have in Fall... And to pick up groceries with... Don Edited June 16, 2022 by Snoopy11 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Maxwell-8 4,275 #13 Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said: Just not logical for small engines, in my opinion. Attainable? Yes. Logical? no. Not intended to offend anyone, just giving my analysis from a performance standpoint. If you want more power but want to stay under 3600 rpm. Like let's say you want to mow with a 60" deck on a 310. a supercharger will give you more torque to drive that deck. When you are talking about getting the tractor moving. you better of making your engine rev high. like you did Don. That being said, I heard that Kohler's love timing, playing with the timing will seriously open up these engines. Edited June 16, 2022 by Maxwell-8 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #14 Posted June 16, 2022 21 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said: Like let's say you want to mow with a 60" deck on a 310. a supercharger will give you more torque to drive that deck. As will a bigga engine... Don 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeM 7,874 #15 Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) Nitrous ? Edited June 16, 2022 by JoeM 1 1 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,571 #16 Posted June 16, 2022 2 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: As will a bigga engine No replacement for displacement. 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OldWorkHorse 3,045 #17 Posted June 16, 2022 Watch "Big block chevy lawnmower road test" on YouTube https://youtu.be/qzVBpddpK2k this guy can mow with a 120" deck in 2ft tall grass 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #18 Posted June 16, 2022 11 minutes ago, OldWorkHorse said: guy can mow with a 120" deck in 2ft tall grass 1/4 mile at a time ! 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
953 nut 55,224 #19 Posted June 16, 2022 The man who can give you all the information on superchargers is @fast88pu, he has done several and they are awesome! 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,024 #20 Posted June 17, 2022 As someone who loves modifying dang near everything- I really don't want to say this. ...However, If you modify any small air cooled engine to operate over 3600 RPM- it's best to start with a bare performance block and build up with high performance components. Otherwise you own a bomb that requires a hammer to start it. There is no if. It will fail catastrophically, and you might hurt yourself or someone else when it happens. 5 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJ5208 1,824 #21 Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, kpinnc said: Otherwise you own a bomb that requires a hammer to start it. Thats the fun in it. Edited June 17, 2022 by TJ Salyers 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill D 1,920 #22 Posted June 17, 2022 @fast88pu has the most experience of anyone here with superchargers for small engines. Built an M16 and a Onan N52 with superchargers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #23 Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, TJ Salyers said: Thats the fun in it. Not when you actually have to start it or get seriously injured by it... My 457 will literally break your wrist if you try to pull start it. 10 hours ago, kpinnc said: There is no if. It will fail catastrophically, and you might hurt yourself or someone else when it happens. YES YES YES YES... People who attempt modifying any small engine need to be serious as a heart-attack about safety. Yes, safety costs a lot of money, but if you aren't serious about safety... then don't modify engines. AND... if you do modify an engine unsafely, I will tell you that it is unsafe... then I will leave... as I don't want to see/hear how horribly you got hurt... Some crap just isn't worth it... Don Edited June 17, 2022 by Snoopy11 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Achto 27,571 #24 Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) As long as we're on the safety subject, let's sit back, relax, & watch a few million $ go up in smoke. Edited June 17, 2022 by Achto 1 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TJ5208 1,824 #25 Posted June 17, 2022 30 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: Not when you actually have to start it or get seriously injured by it... My 457 will literally break your wrist if you try to pull start it. YES YES YES YES... People who attempt modifying any small engine need to be serious as a heart-attack about safety. Yes, safety costs a lot of money, but if you aren't serious about safety... then don't modify engines. AND... if you do modify an engine unsafely, I will tell you that it is unsafe... then I will leave... as I don't want to see/hear how horribly you got hurt... Some crap just isn't worth it... Don It was a joke. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
