C-171

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

I have been looking in some old brochure's and came across a Horse I have never seen nor heard of.

A C-171. Does anyone here have one? must be pretty rare I think.

C-171 and yet it's a blackhood

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

@Maxwell-8 Check this out

 

 

Don

[edgro 679]

Maybe single? You can see the guys left pant leg just under the word horse?

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

1 hour ago, Snoopy11 said:

@Maxwell-8 Check this out

 

 

Don

Thanks!

22 minutes ago, edgro said:

Maybe single? You can see the guys left pant leg just under the word horse?

Maybe the K361?

In the pictures it looks to be a twin.

Wondering what the T would stand for in C-175-T:    EDIT: stands for twin haha

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Maxwell-8

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,172]

The C-171 made it into the operator manual

 

[wh500special 2,244]

We’ve talked about the C-171 before.  It was a planned model, but never produced.  It was supplanted by the C-161-Twin with the Briggs engine instead because the Kohler KT17 was a known time bomb. 

 

I wouldn’t be surprised if a couple of them got loose from the factory since in that time period Wheel Horse would sometimes sell the prototypes as used tractors, but they weren’t made in serial production. 

 

if you search C-171 and my user name you’ll find I’ve bloviated about them quite a bit.  

 

Here’s a snippet of a previous missive:

The glass hood was needed to provide enough space for the twin cylinder engine that was supposed to go into the planned 1978 c-171.  Unfortunately Kohler kind of blew it with the reliability of the KT-17 engine and wheel horse was fortunate enough to find out in advance.  Deere and simplicity and others weren't so lucky and had lots more engine failures than wheelhorse did by waiting two more years.  Hence the Briggs twin as a substitute.  

 

Somebody needs to ask Ed from toro next time the see him if he recalls whether the c-171 was supposed to have a steel hood of the black hood. style.   I bet it was ready but the exhaust on the Briggs required a short deadline redesign.  Just postulating.  

 

Briggs makes great engines.  They just don't have the popularity of the Kohler.  All the manufacturers have misses once in a while, kohler gave us the KV's, the KT series ones, and the Triads...

 

Eventually kohler claimed to have the problems resolved, so the c-175 debuted with the KT two years later.  By that time I guess they decided a full overhaul was needed so hung the bigger sheetmetal hood across the line. 

 

The glass hood was also used in a slightly modified version on the e-141 electric tractor.   

 

It crossed my mind just now that Wheel Horse had an history of introducing new styling gradually and on oddball models: the 1045, the C-161 twins, the 1980's Work Horses...

 

[cschannuth 3,817]

My dad ended up with one of the 1978 twin Briggs C-161s.  He bought it from our neighbor when it was a couple of years old because the neighbor was aggravated that the rear fender broke almost immediately. Dad installed the metal seat pan and never looked back. It mowed grass and pushed snow for decades and still looks almost like new at a distance. The only thing he ever did to it was change the oil, a spark plug or two here and there, regular maintenance and it is still running strong today. When he passed away years ago I was lucky enough to end up with it. Here’s a pic of how it looks after I got it out of his basement and cleaned it all up and how it looks today.  I’ve said it before but he was very particular with his stuff and it was always cleaned up and stored in his basement the entire time he had it.

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

15 hours ago, wh500special said:

The glass hood was needed to provide enough space for the twin cylinder engine that was supposed to go into the planned 1978 c-171.  Unfortunately Kohler kind of blew it with the reliability of the KT-17 engine and wheel horse was fortunate enough to find out in advance.  Deere and simplicity and others weren't so lucky and had lots more engine failures than wheelhorse did by waiting two more years.  Hence the Briggs twin as a substitute.  

 

Are their differences in KT-17 series 1?

Or was the update you talk about the series 2?

[wh500special 2,244]

I don't know much about the evolution of the KT17, but I am pretty sure the C-175's got the original version initially and at some point Kohler released the Series II.  There may have been some mild improvements internally before the Series II was released, but I think the big difference came when a (low pressure) pressurized lube arrangement replaced the original splash/spray strategy.

 

I get the impression that hilly operation is what nuked the average Series I.  The oiling system relied on the sprays and drips hitting critical areas.  Operation on hills meant oil didn't get to where it needed to get and things would fail.  This was apparently worse on tractors like Deere 317's and Cub Cadet 782's etc where the engine was mounted longitudinally and when operated across the face of a hill as when mowing a ditch.  It was so bad that Deere offered a conversion kit to swap an Onan for failed KT's.  I would suspect this was why we see Deere focusing on Onans and Kawasaki engines for a long time afterward.

 

With the engine sideways in a C-175 failures were apparently less common.  Kohler probably gave WH some assurances that the engines would fare better in the sidewiays application or gave a better value over the Briggs to influence the change.

 

There is quite a bit on Series I vs. Series II on Weekend Freedom Machines site.  Some here too.  e.g.

 

Steve

Edited June 17, 2022 by wh500special

[cschannuth 3,817]

13 minutes ago, wh500special said:

With the engine sideways in a C-175 failures were apparently less common

I think there’s something to that sideways mounting because dad’s Briggs wasn’t pressure lubricated and it did fine on some very steep hills that we should not have been mowing with a riding mower but did anyway for about 40 years.