1977 C160 Auto... Pieces.

[Mike C160 251]

2 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Torrington is KOYO.  Probably what Lowell has for his bearings to send.  Do you have a TORO dealer up there?

 8049 / 5960 - No stock in the warehouse. 

[stevasaurus 22,738]

I'm looking at the schematic and I am wondering if you could not just install the bearing flush with the inside.  Is there something on the outside of the trans to stop you from doing that??  In other words, if I understand correctly, the cap would protrude a touch.

[Mike C160 251]

Just now, stevasaurus said:

I'm looking at the schematic and I am wondering if you could not just install the bearing flush with the inside.  Is there something on the outside of the trans to stop you from doing that??  In other words, if I understand correctly, the cap would protrude a touch.

The pump bolts on the other side. See the yellow circle. It will hang out 2 tenths 0.2 of a mm. But the gasket is 0.75mm thick. If i cut the gasket i may be able to make room for it.

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,738]

Thanks for the picture, I see what you mean now.  Yes, I just looked at Motion Industries website, and I did not see a 1" ID bearing with a height shorter then 5/8" .  I like the cutting the gasket to make room idea, sounds like you will be OK with that.  Do the old bearing needles still move in the race.  Keep it if they do.  These bearings are pretty tough, and they do not fail easily.  

[pfrederi 17,739]

The bearing in question should have been 5/8" deep.  They are no longer made by anyone.  Either reuse the old or get a 1/2" deep one.  I have done both ways no issue I would not install the 3/4" and reply on the gasket not compressing too much.  You do not want the lip of the bearing sticking out on the inside of the case.  This was an issue for all the old sunstrand hydros....

[Mike C160 251]

50 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

The bearing in question should have been 5/8" deep.  They are no longer made by anyone.  Either reuse the old or get a 1/2" deep one.  I have done both ways no issue I would not install the 3/4" and reply on the gasket not compressing too much.  You do not want the lip of the bearing sticking out on the inside of the case.  This was an issue for all the old sunstrand hydros....

The one i got is not either 5/8ths or 3/4.... Its 16 mm on the button.

 

Whats the part number for the 1/2 bearing?

[pfrederi 17,739]

Steve had the number for 1/2"

 

If you need a bearing with less height, see if they make a KOYO #M-16081. 

[Mike C160 251]

Well

First off, I never said I could freehand cut a perfect circle

I think im going to try this. Ive cut a clearance hole for the bearing and taken some measurements.

 

With the bearing set with one to two thousands of an inch recessed on the inside so the gear does not rub on the outer casing of the bearing. The bearing is proud 0.3mm at its worst on the pump side. The gasket measures 0.75mm. That gives 0.45mm clearance for gasket compression.  Thats almost half a mm. I dont think we can compress that gasket a whole half a mm. Maybe 0.25 to 0.3 at best, so this "Just" Fits.

 

Ive been in contact with Lowell about this and he is considering updating his gasket to include this hole. I will also recommend to him to increase the gasket thickness to maybe 1mm for a margin of error. I dont think this chuck of cast is a universally perfect size and im sure there is some variance. A 1 mm thick gasket would provide some tolerance space. 

[cafoose 3,355]

22 minutes ago, Mike C160 said:

I think im going to try this. Ive cut a clearance hole for the bearing

I think it's a good idea. That would also help to align the gasket when assembling

[Mike C160 251]

3 minutes ago, cafoose said:

I think it's a good idea. That would also help to align the gasket when assembling

 

I dunno if its a good idea or not yet  Lets hope it is. One of the 4 needle bearings failed in that trans. So putting the old one back in is a crap shoot to me. It looks like its been over heated as its casing is a bit blue. 

 

I think there is enough clearance. But I would feel better with a 1mm thick gasket. Lets see what Lowell thinks about that.

[pfrederi 17,739]

The 1/2" bearing has run for several years in my D200...

[Mike C160 251]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

The 1/2" bearing has run for several years in my D200...

I dont doubt that at all. These shaft barely slip in 1/2. I was a little shocked to see how much support there isnt.

 

 

[Mike C160 251]

Well,

 

I spent all afternoon getting it this far. Without some heavy equipment is was a real fun time getting the transaxle bolted to the frame and the pump to the transaxle without damaging the gasket. However its done.

 

The pump fit without issue. bolted down flush. No issue so far in cutting that gasket to make room for the bearing. 

 

So at this point its filled with oil, no leaks and goes forward and back under no load. Everything in the transaxle spun nice smooth and free prior to installing the pump. So that was good. All new bearings seals and gaskets thru out. 

 

I will finish it up tomorrow and take it for a drive. 

 

Ive also discovered the bearing in the nose of the PTO clutch aint in the best of shape so imma gonna have to chase that too.

 

More tomorrow.

[stevasaurus 22,738]

I think that these horses just love a good shade-tree mechanic.  

[Mike C160 251]

10 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

I think that these horses just love a good shade-tree mechanic.  

 

My tenant burnt my shop down. I lost all of my tools and equipment and have no place to work other than my driveway.

 

[Mike C160 251]

 

Almost there.

 

Drives great. Pump has plenty of poop. I feel fortunate to have caught the transaxle melt down before it was too late. Jack rabbit starts sees it rip up the lawn and lift the front wheels off the ground. much to my surprise. Not something I usually do, but I though I would push it a bit after the rebuild. 

 

I drained and washed everything out I could to ensure as many particles of crap got out of the system. I know there would still be some juice in the pump, hydro lines and ram. I will use it for 5 hours or so then dump the oil again and install another filter. Every year without fail the transaxle will be drained. 

 

The new rocker shaft works a treat. Picks up the tiller without a fuss. This machine will only be used for tilling. She will be a working girl for sure. I know some dont like hydro for tilling, other say its fine if you are quick on the stick. For me my left shoulder is bad and constantly lifting up the tiller on the 8 speed aggravated the joint badly. Even with a new assist spring, its a big lift for a bad shoulder. So I will sharpen my Kung Fu and get good at tilling with hydro.

 

Tomorrow I will adjust the motion control system and get that buttoned up. Then onto some spotty bearings in the pto that I will just clean up and lube till my new bearings come in. I will also get the tensioner and belt on for the tiller.

 

[ineedanother 1,369]

That looks great Mike. I'm looking forward to pairing a C-160 to a tiller myself but the tiller is a later model and will need some mods. I would be curious to see how your cable and rocker line up and lift the next time you take that seat pan off and can post in the attachment forum. I'm definitely with you on the hydro lift for a tiller 

[Mike C160 251]

6 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

That looks great Mike. I'm looking forward to pairing a C-160 to a tiller myself but the tiller is a later model and will need some mods. I would be curious to see how your cable and rocker line up and lift the next time you take that seat pan off and can post in the attachment forum. I'm definitely with you on the hydro lift for a tiller 

 

 

And here is a link from Lowell he uses to explain installation. His rocker shaft works fine. So autos you can use the 8 speed cable, Lowell can tell you about that. 

 

 Form No. 810834 Rev B (wheelhorsepartsandmore.com)

 

Need more? Glad to help.

 

Cheers

 

[Mike C160 251]

17 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

That looks great Mike. I'm looking forward to pairing a C-160 to a tiller myself but the tiller is a later model and will need some mods. I would be curious to see how your cable and rocker line up and lift the next time you take that seat pan off and can post in the attachment forum. I'm definitely with you on the hydro lift for a tiller 

 

 

Sorry, heres two more....

 

 

Cheers

[ineedanother 1,369]

Thanks Mike, that helps. My tiller is drilled for the lift plate but never had one. It's designed to be lifted by a lever on the left but I don't think I'm going that direction. I'm leaning toward running parallel cables back to the rocker arm but maybe I'll feel differently once I get it hooked up. I just can't imagine a single 1/4" cable tolerating the weight of the till for too long.

[Mike C160 251]

36 minutes ago, ineedanother said:

Thanks Mike, that helps. My tiller is drilled for the lift plate but never had one. It's designed to be lifted by a lever on the left but I don't think I'm going that direction. I'm leaning toward running parallel cables back to the rocker arm but maybe I'll feel differently once I get it hooked up. I just can't imagine a single 1/4" cable tolerating the weight of the till for too long.

I hear ya,

 

The lift assist spring takes the beating. The strain on the cable isnt that bad. Ive had one for 2 years on my 8 speed and it still looks like new. I think the ones Lowell builds are better than factory cables. The thought of one cable concerned me too at the start. Not now. And i dont keep strain on them while they are parked. Only in use. 

 

Cheers

[ineedanother 1,369]

Good to know since I would rather not modify that part of things if I don't need to. I'm sure I'll install a link to hang the tiller from the chain for transport but if the cable will handle routine lifting and lowering without shortening its life too much, I'll go with Lowell's rocker and get to work. Thanks again Mike.