Kohler KT Series I rebuilt with Series II?

[Pete M76 7]

I just picked up a C175 as a spare for parts but looking into getting it running. Trying to find out more about the engine. From what I’m reading I believe this is a KT 17S Series I. The curious part about it is the sticker on the engine indicating the engine had been rebuilt using a Series II short block? See image. It references a part number but that number isn’t visible anymore as it has faded with time. So a couple of questions does this rebuild resolve the Series I issues I have been reading about (oil delivery, problems on inclines,etc.) and second when ordering parts do I order for a Series I or a Series II? First post here, sorry if these questions have obvious answers I am unaware of. Look forward to learning from the group. Thanks 

[8ntruck 7,003]

 to the forum.

 

My understanding is that the difference between series I engines and series II engines was mostly in the oiling system.  The series I engine has a spray arrangement for oiling of the big ends of the rods, while the series II engine has a more direct oil delivery system to the rod journal.  I don't think it is a full pressure system, though.

 

That being said, it seems like a series II short block would have the oiling improvements. 

 

As far as parts interchangeably between the two series, I have no idea.  Check the manuals section of the forum for Kohler manuals for the KT series.  I downloaded one, but it has beem long enough ago that I don't remember where I found it.

 

Good bunch of folks here.  I'm sure that someone else will be along soon with more information.

[roadapples 6,983]

[953 nut 55,225]

Here is information from a web site that has trusted information on Kohler engines.

Information About the Kohler Engine Models KT17 (First Design), KT19 (First Design), KT21, and KT17 Series II and KT19 Series II Oiling Systems - Kohler engine models KT17 (First Design), KT17 Series II, KT19 (First Design), KT19 Series II and KT21 all have a gear-driven oil pump, and use one of two types of pressurized lubrication systems.

The KT17 (first design), KT19 (first design) and KT21 engines use a pressurized SPRAY lubrication system. The oil pump delivers oil to the main bearings and camshaft bearings at approximately 5 PSI. The main bearings are under pressurized oil, but lubrication for the connecting rods/journals is provided by oil sprayed continuously from two small holes drilled in the camshaft in alignment with the connecting rods.

On the other hand, the redesigned KT17 Series II and KT19 Series II (including all Magnum opposed twin cylinder engines) have a full pressure lubrication system, much like in a modern-day automobile engine. The Full Pressure Lubrication System delivers oil to the crankshaft bearings, camshaft journals, and connecting rod journals at approximately 25-50 PSI. A spring-loaded pressure relief valve, located in the engine crankcase, behind the closure plate, regulates and limits the maximum oil pressure in the system. These engines have a spring-loaded pressure relief check valve (steel ball) to regulate the oil pressure, and the KT17 (first design), KT19 (first design) and KT21 engines do not. The Series II and Magnum crankshaft is cross-drilled for oil passages from the main journals to the connecting rod journals, and both the main bearings and connecting rod bearing surfaces receive full lubrication from an oil passageway in the block through the crankshaft. Oil does not spray out of the camshaft onto the connecting rods in the KT17 Series II, KT19 Series II and all Magnum opposed twin cylinder engines. If there's no oil filter adapter with no oil filter on a KT17 Series II, KT19 Series II or any Magnum opposed twin cylinder engine (oil filter adapter port blocked-off), it's still important to change the oil on a regular basis with these engines, too. Again, fresh, clean oil is cheaper than another engine or an engine rebuild.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by 953 nut

[Pete M76 7]

Thanks for all the info guys I appreciate it 

[oliver2-44 9,748]

[Achto 27,571]

[Alex175 784]

As someone who lost his series 1 to an oiling issue this winter, I hope for your sake that it has the series 2 improvements.

[pfrederi 17,739]

Series 2 short block should have the improved oiling system....however it probably will not have the thrust bearing used in WH spec engines that would allow you to use a manual PTO

[Pete M76 7]

41 minutes ago, Alex175 said:

As someone who lost his series 1 to an oiling issue this winter, I hope for your sake that it has the series 2 improvements.

Yeah me too. I was hoping that someone else has a series I that had the “upgrade” with the same sticker who could speak to exactly what this rebuild means. When I first saw the sticker I thought I was good and it was a series II engine. It wasn’t until I read the fine print that I figured it was a modified Series I

[Achto 27,571]

1 hour ago, Pete M76 said:

When I first saw the sticker I thought I was good and it was a series II engine. It wasn’t until I read the fine print that I figured it was a modified Series I

 

A short block is a complete engine minus the heads, intake, ignition, fly wheel, tins, oil pan, fuel pump & exhaust. So basically you have a series II engine with series I heads & accessories. The notations on the sticker are to advise you when ordering internal parts.

 

You should have a good engine that will last a long time.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Achto

[Pete M76 7]

Awesome! That’s what I was hoping for. I appreciate you breaking it down for me. Thanks!

[AHS 1,440]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:43 AM, Pete M76 said:

[AHS 1,440]

On 5/27/2022 at 11:10 AM, Achto said:

 

A short block is a complete engine minus the heads, intake, ignition, fly wheel, tins, oil pan, fuel pump & exhaust. So basically you have a series II engine with series I heads & accessories. The notations on the sticker are to advise you when ordering internal parts.

 

You should have a good engine that will last a long time.

I’m answering my own question, I think? New crank and cases, cause the oil is being driven thru the crank?

[Achto 27,571]

5 minutes ago, AHS said:

New crank and cases, cause the oil is being driven thru the crank?

 

Correct, this was the up grade on the series II engines

[kpinnc 12,025]

On 5/27/2022 at 9:16 AM, pfrederi said:

Series 2 short block should have the improved oiling system....however it probably will not have the thrust bearing used in WH spec engines that would allow you to use a manual PTO

 

Onans don't have any sort of thrust bearings, or any roller bearings at all on the crankshaft. Same for many of the briggs twins used on WH.

 

I've seen many comments on this forum concerning thrust bearings and manual PTOs- but the only engine I've seen documentation on requiring it is the newer Command single cylinders. 

 

I certainly understand the axial loading that the manual PTO applies to the crank. I'm also not doubting anyone here, but is there verified requirements for any other engines except Command singles that came on the 90s classic machines? 

[pfrederi 17,739]

11 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Onans don't have any sort of thrust bearings, or any roller bearings at all on the crankshaft. Same for many of the briggs twins used on WH.

 

I've seen many comments on this forum concerning thrust bearings and manual PTOs- but the only engine I've seen documentation on requiring it is the newer Command single cylinders. 

 

I certainly understand the axial loading that the manual PTO applies to the crank. I'm also not doubting anyone here, but is there verified requirements for any other engines except Command singles that came on the 90s classic machines? 

Only that all WH spec KT17 and Magnum 18s came with the thrust bearings....Also when WH used some B&S singles they designed and used an external thrust bearing and plate.  I doubt WH would have gone to the expense if they didn't think it necessary...

Edited June 2, 2022 by pfrederi

[kpinnc 12,025]

7 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Only that all WH spec KT17 and Magnum 18s came with the thrust bearings....Also when WH used some B&S singles they designed and used an external thrust bearing and plate.  I doubt WH would have gone to the expense if they didn't think it necessary...

 

Do you know which single Briggs may have come with one of those engines? I'd really be interested in that external plate part number. Most engines have at least a sinilar bolt pattern on the PTO side. I'd be willing to bet they could be made to work on other engines.

 

Definitely something to consider on repower projects.

[pfrederi 17,739]

1100 special