New to me Wheel Horse tractors. C-105 and 416-H

[JerryLook 73]

I recently acquired two Wheel Horse tractors from a relative who wanted to get rid of them. I’ve never owned a Wheel Horse before, and have some questions about them. I’ll tell a little about each tractor. 
 

C-105. This tractor is in rough cosmetic and running shape. From the S/N plate I know it’s a 1981. The relative I got it from is the original owner, and has had the engine rebuilt once (because he said he ran it out of oil). 
This tractor came to me with wheel weights and snow chains on it. He’s supposed to give me the snowblower that goes with it as well. 
When I changed the oil, some thick metallic sludge came out first. I would imagine the engine has a stuck ring, or something that’s causing it to eat itself. Also there is oil on the head fins, which I’ve read is a sign of a cracked head. This mower also smokes a lot when it runs. 
I would assume this engine will need a complete rebuild if I ever want to use the tractor for anything. It has what looks to be the original Kohler 10hp engine. 
 

 

416-H. This tractor is in much better shape than the other. But unfortunately it was being stored outside. I got this one in non running condition. The S/N plate is not where it’s supposed to be on the rear fender. So I don’t know the year. Also the engine data plate is too faded to read. So I can’t get the age info from there either. 

I found that the seat switch was wired wrong. Someone had spliced the wires together so that the seat light was always on. And the seat was adjusted so it would never touch the seat switch anyways. So I spliced yellow and Orange together for now so it runs. 
The battery terminal on the ignition switch was broken off. So I borrowed the ignition switch from the C-105 (same P/N). 
I fired up the Onan 16hp and it runs great. I changed the oil and oil filter, as well as the fuel filter. 
The mower runs and mows great. I greased all the fittings and sharpened the blades. It shows 487 hours on the hour meter. 
 

 

Sorry for the long post. My questions are this.

 

What is the service interval for greasing the front spindles?
 

Also, on the 416-H, should I go ahead and change the hydro filter and fluid since I don’t know the last time it was done? 

 

I’ve noticed that some people are running a Tri rib front tire. What size are you using, and are you reusing the factory wheels? 
 

 

I was happy to see that there’s a forum devoted to these mowers. I’m on a couple of farm tractor forums also. My other tractors are a Ford 3000 diesel, and Ford 8N. So I’m used to working on tractors, just a little bit bigger. 

[JerryLook 73]

Also on the 416-H the parking brake light is on all the time. And the parking brake doesn’t seem to work. So I assume there’s an adjustment that needs to be made to fix the brake and extinguish the light. 

[Pullstart 62,721]

 if there’s a positive to the 416-H being stored outside, the transmission can’t get water in it at least!  Most service intervals are 50 hours.  For the trans, WIX 51410 or NAPA 1410 hydro filter and replace oil for oil or atf for atf - don’t mix.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,454]

 

I have a C 105. Great machines! I had mine rebuilt. Runs good.

 

I’d change the trans oil (80-90 wght) and grease the spindles… prop front end up high when draining trans oil. There’s a hump in middle that blocks oil from draining.

 

[JerryLook 73]

Thanks guys. I was hoping the C-105 would turn out to be the nicer tractor. I prefer a geared trans versus the hydro. But free is free and it is what it is I guess. And it drives pretty nice, so I don’t have any real complaints. 
 

I need to find the spec for the hydro trans oil. I can’t use something like a UTF right? I always have a 5 gallon bucket of that around. 
 

For the 416 it needs 80/90 for the rear end, and then Hyd oil for the trans right? Or do they share the same oil? 

[Achto 27,488]

1 hour ago, JerryLook said:

I’ve noticed that some people are running a Tri rib front tire. What size are you using, and are you reusing the factory wheels? 

 

 

Your C105 will require a wider tire for an 8" rim. Best fitment for the factory rims will be the Firestone tri ribs. Spendy, but they look & perform great.

https://www.millertire.com/16x6-50-8-firestone-3-rib-front-tractor-tire-4-ply/

 

Another choice for that tractor would be 5 ribs.

https://www.millertire.com/16x6-50-8-v61-hd-5-rib-170-60-8-implement-tire-6-ply/

 

Your 416 has 6" rims on the front.

 

Not quite as many options in that size.

 

https://www.millertire.com/categories/lawn-garden-tires/15x6-00-6/

 

 

[JerryLook 73]

Thanks for the links. Yeah the first ones cost the same as the 6.50x16 Tri ribs I just bought for my Ford 3000. Actually those were only 90$ a piece. Haha. 
 

The 5 rib tires look nice too. And are probably more lawn friendly. 
 

So can I put the 8” front rims from the C-105 on the 416-H? 

Edited May 24, 2022 by JerryLook

[JerryLook 73]

I had not noticed that until you mentioned it. That the C-105 has 8” rims. I think those are much more attractive than the 6”. 
 

It looks like the 416-H has the space to fit bigger front wheels and tires. 

[Achto 27,488]

3 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

looks like the 416-H has the space to fit bigger front wheels and tires. 

 

You will want shorter front spindles to keep the tractor level for mowing if you put 8" rims on the front. Many forum members have switched to 8" rims.

[JerryLook 73]

Ok right, because the overall diameter of the tire is bigger with the 8” rims. That makes sense 
 

Are the spindles pretty compatible between the Wheel Horse models, or some from a different Wheel Horse model with 8” rims that would fit the 416?
 

Something I can keep an eye out for if I see someone parting out a tractor. 

[roadapples 6,983]

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,279]

3 hours ago, JerryLook said:

Thanks guys. I was hoping the C-105 would turn out to be the nicer tractor. I prefer a geared trans versus the hydro. But free is free and it is what it is I guess. And it drives pretty nice, so I don’t have any real complaints. 
 

I need to find the spec for the hydro trans oil. I can’t use something like a UTF right? I always have a 5 gallon bucket of that around. 
 

For the 416 it needs 80/90 for the rear end, and then Hyd oil for the trans right? Or do they share the same oil? 

  The 416’s hydro unit is an Eaton 1100 and uses 10w-30 motor oil and that NAPA Wix filter mentioned above. The Eaton handles the tractor forward and reverse motion AND the hydraulic lift. So one fluid/filter swap takes care of both motion and lift. 

  The C-105-8 speed uses 80-90w gear oil. Approximately 2 quarts. 
 

[JerryLook 73]

Ok thanks. I noticed where the hydro filter is in the back by the hitch. I’m sure I can find the drain plug under there. Then the level is check via the dip stick by the gas cap I assume? 
I noticed my 416 has some oil build up on the right side of the diff. I wonder if I have a leak back there. 
 

 

[Achto 27,488]

Hard to tell if that leak is at the axle seal or on top of the tranny.  I would clean it up & run it around for a while to see where the leak is. Drain for the tranny will be on the bottom of the tranny. Right next to the hitch. 3/8 or 1/2" pipe plug.

[Handy Don 12,103]

34 minutes ago, Achto said:

Hard to tell if that leak is at the axle seal or on top of the tranny

 I agree. With muck on top of the seat support frame, it could be that the dipstick housing is broken or isn't properly locked into the transaxle or that one of the top bolts wasn't tightened

[Pullstart 62,721]

19 hours ago, JerryLook said:

Ok right, because the overall diameter of the tire is bigger with the 8” rims. That makes sense 
 

Are the spindles pretty compatible between the Wheel Horse models, or some from a different Wheel Horse model with 8” rims that would fit the 416?
 

Something I can keep an eye out for if I see someone parting out a tractor. 

You’ll find that a lot of Wheel Horse parts are compatible.  There’s some guys who run the 8” spindles with 6” wheels for pulling to keep the front end low 

[953 nut 54,979]

21 hours ago, JerryLook said:

I was hoping the C-105 would turn out to be the nicer tractor. I prefer a geared trans versus the hydro. But free is free and it is what it is I guess. And it drives pretty nice, so I don’t have any real complaints. 

The hydro lift would be the way to go with your snow blower, also you will probably be doing more direction changes while blowing snow than mowing so the 416's hydro trans is a big plus. 

We had an UGLY SEAT CONTEST here a few years back, too bad you didn't have the C-105 then.   

 

[JerryLook 73]

I was looking at spindles this morning on ebay. Seems like I can get a pair of spindles for 8” wheels pretty inexpensive. Also I think the spindles from the C-105 would fit the 416 from the research I’ve done. 
 

The C-105 would need a bit of work to make it right again. It needs an ignition switch, battery, seat, engine overhaul...

So I’m not sure what to do with it. I don’t know that I want to put the time or money into a tractor that’s so cosmetically beat up. 

 

Yes, that’s the worst seat I’ve seen. It’s pretty sad. 

 

I think the snowblower and 416H would be a good combo too. I need to get my hands on the snowblower soon. My relative has it, but not at the same place as the mowers were. I’m realizing now how much this Wheel horse stuff goes for. And it might be hard to find a snowblower near me anyways. 

[JerryLook 73]

I noticed today that the oil level is over full on the 416. So it must be leaking gas through the carb. Honestly the carb could use a rebuild anyways. I have to run it with about 1/4 choke on to make the engine run smooth. 
 

What’s everyone’s opinion on what to do with the C-105? I see my options as this-

 

-Use it as a parts tractor. Take the spindles and front wheels for my 416. Use any other parts I might need off it 

 

-Sell it as is for someone else to mess with. Obviously with the full disclaimer of everything I know is wrong with it. 
 

-Park it for now and maybe some day do something with it. I have a ton of projects, and not a lot of time. The odds of getting to it any time soon are slim. But maybe some time over the winter. One of these winters. Haha. 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,454]

I consulted with his Black Hood cousin that’s in my garage - my C 105 - and we agree - Keep it and get it running!!! 
 

Cheers!

 

 

 

[8ntruck 6,971]

  Clyde my C195 agrees with @SylvanLakeWH:

 

 

 to the forum.  Good bunch of folks here.  Collectively, we've probably broken, and fixed, a Wheel Horse in every possible way.  Got questions, ask them - you will probably get at least one good answer here.

[JerryLook 73]

Nice looking C-105. Oh and nice beer too 

 

The thing that’s holding me back from committing to my C-105 is the engine issues. I’m wondering if it would be cheaper to find a good, used engine, instead of rebuilding the original. 
 

The original engine looks to have a few issues. Some are probably related. 
 

-Oil on head fins (cracked head?)

-Smokes a lot when running 

-Pressure on oil dipstick 

-Stripped exhaust bolts, exhaust loose 

-Tons of metal in oil 

 

Since I’ve been told it was rebuilt in the past, who knows how much shady work was done to it then. The person I got it from most likely got the cheapest person to do the work. 
 

I also wouldn’t be against putting a non original engine in it. If everything else would fit like stock. Like a different Kohler engine if the same series. 
 

I try to not put more money into something than I can sell it for. Even if I have no intentions of selling it. With a few exceptions of course. 
 

I’m not opposed to sourcing another engine. If everything could be had for say a couple hundred dollars. 

Edited May 25, 2022 by JerryLook

[SylvanLakeWH 25,454]

May want to check out this option…

 

 

[953 nut 54,979]

19 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

I try to not put more money into something than I can sell it for. Even if I have no intentions of selling it. With a few exceptions of course.

Stick around, we will corrupt you in short order.                

22 minutes ago, JerryLook said:

I also wouldn’t be against putting a non original engine in it. If everything else would fit like stock. Like a different Kohler engine if the same series. 

Come to the BIG SHOW next month, lots of good used engines and rebuilt ones for sale there.  https://www.facebook.com/pg/WheelHorseCollectorsClub/posts/

[JerryLook 73]

Interesting. That’s not too too far from me. I’ll have to see what I have going on on those dates. 
 

My cousin has a large lawn tractor collection. I’ll have to ask him what he has for spare engines. It’s been a while since I’ve been over to his place, but last time I was there he had over 20 tractors. I want to say at least half of them ran. Haha. 
 

I drained the gas contaminated oil out of the 416 this morning and put new oil in. I’m going to try running it out of gas via the fuel shutoff on the tank until I can get the carb sorted out. 
I suspect it had this issue when it came to me, as the oil was overfilled when I got it. I got an extra carb new in the box with the tractors. I’ll have to look and see which one it’s for. 
 

I also noticed there are carb rebuilt kits available online for the Onan P216 engine. I should probably rebuild it regardless, to get the best performance. With gas prices how they are.... 

Its one of the things I appreciate about my diesel tractor, I can idle it around most of the time and it just sips fuel. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by JerryLook