B-80 8 Speed Transmission Noise

[tntatro 171]

Hello, I'm working on a B-80 8 speed that I recently purchased. It had been sitting for maybe 20 years based on what the seller told me. At first it would not go into any gear. With a little effort I managed to get into each gear but it didn't slide in easy. When I drained it there was water in it and the gear oil was lumpy. I emptied it and put in diesel fuel and drove around for a little while. Now it goes into 1st, 3rd and reverse fairly easy but 2nd is really difficult and shifting from high to low is a little difficult but it does shift. The auto parts store didn't have any 80/90 so I put in GL-5 85/140. After I put it in and drove it in 3rd gear the transmission sounded like driving a truck in 4wd in low range. I'm in northern Alabama so it's not cold. 

 

I'm wondering if the sound it makes is likely a stuck bearing or something or could it be the gear oil I used? In the past I always put in 80/90 but never paid attention to GL rating. I believe the manual said SAE 140 GL-5. I guess I have to take it apart anyway to get it to shift into 2nd and make the hi/low easier. It didn't make that noise with the diesel fuel in it.

[ri702bill 8,327]

When you open it up, you will be surprised with the amount of damage, I did a 4 speed recently that was very noisy while flushing - almost all the gears were severely pitted and the axle needle bearings as well. Did you notice the seals leaking after flushing? Plan on replacing them too...

Bill

[squonk 41,150]

You' ll end up breaking the hi lo fork anyway if you don't take it apart.

[peter lena 8,634]

@tntatro  first question, how much road driving area do you have ? having done this flush out and refresh a number of times . that diesel refill will help cut the crud , also jack up your front end to help drainage . I  use every gear and hi/lo range , how is your clutch linkage ? rusty , hanging up ? aerosol lubricant the rust out of it , have a Walmart close by?  their own brand of 80-90 oil is fine , would not rough house your shifting , would also refill oil at shifter boot area , so you can oil downfall into gear box and shifter gate area . get new shifter boot . the more time you can  spend driving ,on a road , not puttering around on the lawn , will get you the start of results , usually 2 drain an refills will do it . drive around in reverse , as it starts to flush itself , it will start to work easier . this not a quick and done issue , its a slow recovery to an existing problem. agree with @ri702bill   on those oil seals , packing pullers will help remove those . if you can't do this , maybe get some local help , pete

[tntatro 171]

Thanks for the replies. I forgot to mention that I replaced the seals already. The shafts felt solid also. The clutch seems to work normally. I also jack up the front when draining. I only drove around the yard. I'm just going to take it apart. I'm concerned about the noise and don't want to risk damaging a shaft if I haven't already. There was a bit of water in it and there might be bearings that are rusty. I have a couple good 4 speeds and put one on for now. 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

All the flushing in the world will not fix a bad or rusted bearing.  You will only ruin the shaft in that bearing.  With what you stated you had coming out and the rust issues on the shift rails, opening this up is the correct thing to do.  If this is your first time, here is a thread with videos.  

 

 

[peter lena 8,634]

@ tntatro  was not aware you had spare units , that makes for a solid gain . makes for a good regular check suggestion , always look over my stuff , and regularly check my trans oil dip stick , and shifter boot , regularly change out my trans oil , and other lubrication related areas , that and electrical , have been thoroughly gone over and changed out for no surprises . keep them alive , pete

[Stormin 9,981]

Open the thing up like you say. All the flushing in the world won't get all the muck and built up rust out. Also I'd be surprised if the bearings are still ok.

[tntatro 171]

I have to clean my work space a bit and clean off the bench to set up a stand for it. I got tired of going through an obstacle course whenever I need to get something. Here's a couple pictures. The 4 speed I put on has all new bearings and seals.

[tntatro 171]

I threw together a stand made from scrap wood. 

[Handy Don 12,235]

18 minutes ago, tntatro said:

I threw together a stand made from scrap wood. 

Hubs are off so you are already over the hump!

[tntatro 171]

18 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Hubs are off so you are already over the hump!

The first time I took them off to change the seals I pretty much ruined two aftermarket m18 Milwaukee batteries using my impact wrench with the hub puller. They still work but no longer take a full charge. This time they came off fairly easy but I still needed the hub puller.

[tntatro 171]

I got it apart, it was really hard to get it into 2nd to get the gears out but I managed. The bearings don't look rusty but one 1533 bearing is pretty sloppy and the other is a little loose. I haven't cleaned it up yet but so far it looks like one needle bearing has a little rust on it. I don't know what was causing the noise though. I wish Wheel Horse had used a heavier and more common bearing for the differential. I have a couple used 1533's that are better than the ones in this but are a little loose also.

[Handy Don 12,235]

You should surely check with our other vendors, of course, but wheelhorsepartsandmore.com shows 1533's on their website

[tntatro 171]

35 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

You should surely check with our other vendors, of course, but wheelhorsepartsandmore.com shows 1533's on their website

I just don't have the money for a set. I'd like to replace all the bearings so it could go for decades more. 

[tntatro 171]

I cleaned up the case halves a little. One of the bearings lost it's needles when I was cleaning but I have good used ones for replacement. There's a lot of rust but I think the gears and case halves are fine to use. I think I'll use the pressure washer on them to get the grit out and see which bearings need to be replaced. I have enough used bearings from previous rebuilds to replace all the bearings if I needed to but I don't think they will all need it. I found another 1533 bearing so I have three extra. One is a little rusty and loose but the other two are a lot better than what is in the case halves.

[tntatro 171]

Here's the other half. It's not as bad.

 

[tntatro 171]

I cleaned them up a little more and replaced some bearings with better used ones.

[tntatro 171]

[tntatro 171]

I also got the B-80 running decent. It took a while to get the rpm right. If I set it around 3,400 rpm it seems to have to work hard to go uphill. If I set it around 3,800 rpm it seems a lot more powerful. I had a hard time getting it right around 3,600 rpm. Also, if I throttle it up fast then the speed will go way up at first then lower down to normal after a few seconds. My tachometer jumps around a bit and I don't know how accurate it is but I think I got it between 3,500 and 3,700. It also seems loud for a K181. Must be the muffler. The deck is also loud.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Just looking at your pictures of the new/used bearings in the case halves...make sure your bearings are set flush with the top of their receptacles. or you will be pinching the shafts when you bolt it together.   

[Snoopy11 5,714]

On 5/21/2022 at 11:16 AM, stevasaurus said:

All the flushing in the world will not fix a bad or rusted bearing.  You will only ruin the shaft in that bearing.

I second that... (different transmissions in mine)... but what Steve said is definitely CERTAINLY correct.

 

I hear of a lot of "flushing" transmissions... but with these old restores... there is no substitute for opening up that transmission, cleaning, and replacing...

 

Hell of a job @tntatro

 

Don

[tntatro 171]

2 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Just looking at your pictures of the new/used bearings in the case halves...make sure your bearings are set flush with the top of their receptacles. or you will be pinching the shafts when you bolt it together.   

Thanks, I just double checked and they were slightly high.

[tntatro 171]

The bearings in this gear were locked up. They didn't look that bad but wouldn't move.

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Those bearings are WH #7207 (2) 3/8" ID.  I do not know the height, but if it is 1/2" height the bearing would be KOYO or Torrington B-0608.  Measure the height and inside diameter and put it here...I can tell you the bearings to get.

   Here is how KOYO and Torrington size their bearings..."B" = through bearing.  The inside diameter and the height are in 16" , with the ID 1st and the height 2nd.  So we have "B" with 3/8" ID which is 6/16".  If the height is 1/2" that = 08/16".  So your bearing is B-0608.  If the height is 5/8"...it would be B-0610.  Understand??