Looking for something fun to do...

[Handy Don 12,235]

Forney 140. I read the user guide

 

[WheelHorse520H 708]

1 minute ago, Handy Don said:

Forney 140. I read the user guide

 

Excellent, thank you. Which would you go with for this project as well as occasional use throughout the year?

[Snoopy11 5,714]

11 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

Which would you go with for this project as well as occasional use throughout the year?

I reiterate... the mig 100 would do the job nicely for your needs. Plus, you won't have to purchase anything but consumables and MIG flux wire... preferably .030... (you can pick up Lincoln .030 welding wire at any hardware store).

 

Kevin's welder that he used is very similar.

 

Don

[Handy Don 12,235]

I didn't see/read a post from snoop11.

 

We're back to what you want to do. The Forney 140 (or the HD Titanium 140's) are not the tools for building an FEL frame or other project that needs a lot of strong welds in thick metal--especially for a new-to-welding operator. For jobs on lighter tubing, plate, or sheet metal, or small jobs with thicker materials, I expect either would do fine if not abused and you have the right power source.

 

Another way to look at this: these machines were designed and built to have a lifetime of a certain number of working hours before failing (if I were guessing, I'd estimate no more than a couple hundred hours). More money gets you, usually, a longer lifetime (maybe 000's of hours) as well as more power.

 

Personally, I went with 140 to have the capacity to do the brief jobs on thicker materials in a single pass. If I'd been good with ⅛ or even 3/16 as my max, I'd have gone with 120 or even 100 amp. And I knew I'd never use stick but I will use MIG. 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Handy Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Here is what all I would buy today if you were thinking about doing this project:

 

Welder

 

Helmet

 

Welding wire

 

Consumables

 

Nozzle Gel

 

Gloves

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

I didn't see/read a post from snoop11

Shhhh... I'm on the phone with your eye doctor...

 

Don

[cschannuth 3,816]

@WHX?? after reading all these welding posts your life may be in danger using that loader that I built. I used a 50-year-old Montgomery Ward stick welder that my dad had sitting in his basement. I’m self taught as I’m sure you can tell by looking at some of the welds. I think they are strong and have good penetration but please be careful. 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

8 hours ago, 953 nut said:

good penetration and duty cycle

I will say... I have used both my Jegs welders for HOURS on end... and haven't ever ran into a duty cycle issue, or had the welder get hot. IT DOES help if you run an electric fan, and have it blowing on the welding machine itself to keep it nice and cool.

 

Secondly, on High setting, the penetration of Mig 110 welders is sufficient for most jobs. I won't say ALL jobs, but for the needs mentioned in this thread, I feel that a mig 110 would be more than sufficient.

 

Don

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Thanks @Snoopy11, one more question though. What is the nozzle gel used for? I just wasn't sure with the one you posted because there was all the talk about the stick because of better penetration, but I see now you answered that. Would one pass be sufficient?

[Snoopy11 5,714]

3 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

@WHX?? after reading all these welding posts your life may be in danger using that loader that I built. I used a 50-year-old Montgomery Ward stick welder that my dad had sitting in his basement. I’m self taught as I’m sure you can tell by looking at some of the welds. I think they are strong and have good penetration but please be careful. 

Nuttin' wrong with that. AND no reason to spend 400+ on a welder either for the average DIY guy... (unless you really want to spend that much)...

 

P.S. one of my family members was a master welder... so... welding is something I know a tiny bit about...

 

Don

[Snoopy11 5,714]

4 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

What is the nozzle gel used for?

You put it inside the nozzle cover in this kit with a Q-tip, and all over the bronze pieces as well to prevent spatter from sticking.

 

You don't absolutely HAVE to do this, but it is my recommendation for long(er) lasting consumables...

 

 

4 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

Would one pass be sufficient?

1 slow pass. Keep in mind, the slower you go, the better the penetration. Keep the filler wire flowing, but not TOO much to build up too quickly.

 

You will get a hang of it as soon as you start.  The technique that I use is exactly like this (going slow, steady). No reason to rush anything:

 

 

Don

Edited May 9, 2022 by Snoopy11

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Is a leather jacket a must or just an extra for a full day of welding? I love that you highlighted the little C's that you make with a MIG. I tend to go slow with MIGs anyway to get a nice clean weld. If that nozzle gel keeps me from buying more parts too soon than I'll take it.

 

You guys are great, thanks for all the help.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

42 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

Is a leather jacket a must or just an extra for a full day of welding?

Whether you wear a leather jacket or not is completely dependent on how much pain you want to be in. You will have sparks. AND you will get burnt. Me personally, a just put on a pair of gloves and an old raggedy t-shirt. BUT... I don't recommend that... unless you are a glutton for punishment like me...

 

Don

[WheelHorse520H 708]

40 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Whether you wear a leather jacket or not is completely dependent on how much pain you want to be in. You will have sparks. AND you will get burnt. Me personally, a just put on a pair of gloves and an old raggedy t-shirt. BUT... I don't recommend that... unless you are a glutton for punishment like me...

 

Don

I was in a metal shop at school for a few weeks and the first thing we did was leather jacket, gloves, and safety glasses for everything. But then welding in the auto shop at the same school, we only wore safety glasses, gloves, a face shield, and a normal long sleeve shirt.

[wallfish 17,011]

I'm on the ARC /stick welding band wagon when it comes to needing good heavy penetrated welds like a loader or Hoe and hydraulics require. Hydraulics will in deed find the weak spot fast.  Stick is also better for welding outside IMO like I did building the Hoe. Never once kept rods in an oven, just closed the cap on the plastic box. I'm not a pro welder but have fabed quite a bit of stuff and I do have a 220v mig set up too. If doing it again, I'd still stick weld it.

[953 nut 55,297]

I have a Lincoln Wirematic 250 Mig that I use from time to time for light duty work but like Mike I have been using a stick welder longer than I care to admit (bought the buzz box in the 1960s) and am comfortable with it. I have used the mig on a few heavy jobs but just feel better about stick. 

I have a few #12 (very dark) welding helmets and a auto-darkening one. The automatic one is fine for a quick repair job but even with it set for 13 it seems to bother my eyes on longer jobs. I grew up flipping the old helmet down as I draw the arc so it is second nature.

With the Mig you will need to have some windbreakers in place while welding outdoors to prevent the cover gas from being blown away. When I lived in Florida where the humidity was high I would store  welding rods in a small homemade "Rod oven". It was an old mailbox wrapped in insulation with a 7 watt Christmas tree light inside, just enough to keep the flux dry. 

 

[Handy Don 12,235]

4 hours ago, WheelHorse520H said:

Is a leather jacket a must or just an extra for a full day of welding? I love that you highlighted the little C's that you make with a MIG. I tend to go slow with MIGs anyway to get a nice clean weld. If that nozzle gel keeps me from buying more parts too soon than I'll take it.

 

You guys are great, thanks for all the help.

The goal is to protect your skin from intense light and spatter of molten metal using material strong enough not to burn through.

 

I use a flameproof long sleeve shirt that buttons to the neck under the mask and gets under the gauntlet of my gloves. There are non-leather welding jackets that a lot of pros wear that they pair with flameproof trousers. Some folks wear "sleeve only" flameproofs with a neck gaiter/bandana, and then use a welding apron to protect their torso and legs. People who value their current and future health use appropriate protective equipment.

 

Notice that a lot of the fellows here have long used welding and have adapted accordingly to their equipment. "Sticking" with what you know is safe and very efficient (yeah, bad pun). You will be creating new habits and muscle memory as you learn and practice that serves your style so, again IMHO, frame all of our response through the lens of what you know about your own habits, style, budget, goals, and preferences.

 

And we all wish you the best of luck!

[WheelHorse520H 708]

So I am trying to reduce costs without reducing quality, and I was wondering if because the amount of steel needed, would it be cheaper to got to a wholesaler rather than Lowe's or Home Depot? I'd assume so but I've never had to buy steel before. Would they be able to cut it free? Or is this so much that they'd charge extra?

Thanks,

Andrew

Edited May 11, 2022 by WheelHorse520H

[953 nut 55,297]

24 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

So I am trying to reduce costs without reducing quality, and I was wondering if because the amount of steel needed, would it be cheaper to got to a wholesaler rather than Lowe's or Home Depot? I'd assume so but I've never had to buy steel before. Would they be able to cut it free? Or is this so much that they'd charge extra?

Thanks,

Andrew

A good machine shop/fabrication shop will be much less expensive than the retail stores. I would suggest buying full length pieces and purchasing a Portaband Saw to do your cuts at home. Nobody does anything for free these days, the shops will cut your steel for a fee but it will be a square cut and not all your pieces want to be square. If you don't need a great deal of a specific size ask if they have a "DROP" longer than what you piece needs to be, could save a little money there.

[Handy Don 12,235]

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

good machine shop/fabrication shop

I agree on this point as well as with...

 

3 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Nobody does anything for free these days

 

There are some online steel vendors with decent prices, but the shipping can be a killer--especially for any pieces longer than the Post Office will handle (36" I believe).

 

Once place I've patronized is a shop that makes up ornamental and security fences, gates, and window bars--these guys are used to working with all sizes of raw material and all sizes of component parts where dimensions are critical. Another is a larger shop that does general fabrication and equipment repairs. (For example, I needed to shorten and make new pivot holes in 15 hardened flail knives--these guys did it for $3 a knife).

 

In both cases, I make it clear that economy is important and ask what I can do to lower my costs. Doing my own cuts is one way they mentioned and so I got a Milwaukee M12 hand-held band saw that is remarkably powerful and easy to handle (similar units are now available for most of the high-quality battery tool lines). The throat is 2+" so it'll take any bar or rod that I'm likely to use and it'll take a 2.5" slice off a ¼" plate with no trouble. For larger plate cuts, I'm looking at the blade that @Pullstart put in a circular saw as an option. It also helps that I have a bench grinder for touchups and a drill press with a set of hard-metal bits (still need to get some of the larger sizes, though ).

 

In some areas, scrap yards can be useful sources if you visit regularly. Neither of the two yards near me will resell to individuals, however; too much bother and an insurance risk.

 

[Pullstart 62,905]

33 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

For larger plate cuts, I'm looking at the blade that @Pullstart put in a circular saw as an option.

it wasn’t just a metal blade, it’s a metal cutting saw.  My favorite cutting tool I have!

 

 

[WheelHorse520H 708]

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

A good machine shop/fabrication shop will be much less expensive than the retail stores.

I found a couple within an hour drive. That sell by the pound and have a chart of 1pound of a certain size =$x.

 

4 hours ago, 953 nut said:

Nobody does anything for free these days, the shops will cut your steel for a fee but it will be a square cut and not all your pieces want to be square.

My high school has a metal shop, and I could see if they can make the holes and maybe cuts if I need it. That would probably be even cheaper than a shop doing it. I'll look into a saw for myself too.

Thanks

Edited May 11, 2022 by WheelHorse520H
Poor spelling

[Handy Don 12,235]

13 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

it wasn’t just a metal blade, it’s a metal cutting saw.  My favorite cutting tool I have!

 

Ah, thanks for commenting. I'd missed that detail, which changes the cost equation quite a bit. 🙃

Still, I was extremely impressed with the quality of the cuts. Do you remember offhand what is the thickness of the blade?

[Pullstart 62,905]

11 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Ah, thanks for commenting. I'd missed that detail, which changes the cost equation quite a bit. 🙃

Still, I was extremely impressed with the quality of the cuts. Do you remember offhand what is the thickness of the blade?

Without measuring, I’d guess about 1/8” or so.

[WheelHorse520H 708]

@Pullstart, did you use a drill press for your loader build or just a drill and hole saw? Just figuring out if I'd need to send them off to be drilled. What was the largest hole you had to make? Trying to find high quality hole saws, but don't know what size to look for.

Thanks

Edited May 11, 2022 by WheelHorse520H