Factory WheelHorse towball

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

I have seen a ton of these towballs behind WheelHorses.  From the south of Belgium to up in the north of the Netherlands. They all look identically the same and have the correct paint. I have seen too many to be homemade by a dude.

Is this something WHeelHorse would have made? Maybe Belgium factory special?

[SylvanLakeWH 27,589]

First one I’ve seen… 

 

Good question…

 

[ebinmaine 70,792]

22 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

First one I’ve seen… 

 

Good question…

 

[Retired Wrencher 5,651]

Even if not W/H made sure looks handy to have. I like it. Maxwell what size ball is that?

Edited April 28, 2022 by Retierd Wrencher

[953 nut 57,994]

Nothing I have ever seen but well built and looks quite handy.

[lynnmor 7,575]

If the draw bar is the same under the transmission as the standard one, there must be a lot of leverage pushing up there. 

[ebinmaine 70,792]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

If the draw bar is the same under the transmission as the standard one, there must be a lot of leverage pushing up there. 

 

Agreed.

I would not be super warm and fuzzy about putting more than 100 lb or so of tongue weight on that. 

[Handy Don 13,340]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Agreed.

I would not be super warm and fuzzy about putting more than 100 lb or so of tongue weight on that. 

I concur.

With the ball being so far above the pivot point on the transaxle, even the pull load would be causing upward pressure on the flanges under the transmission casing. This setup looks very convenient but surely for only a light tongue load and maybe a few hundred pounds of pulling load--maybe for repositioning caravans or hauling small garden carts?

[8ntruck 7,395]

  The picture of @Pullstart floating around in the forum somewhere comes to mind.  He is on one of his Horses pulling a trailer with a couch on it.  The Horse is on its back wheels, and engine looks to be tipped beyond the Kohler recommended operating angle of 30 degrees.

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

6 hours ago, Retierd Wrencher said:

Even if not W/H made sure looks handy to have. I like it. Maxwell what size ball is that?

I will have to mesure, is the stadard size ball we use here in Europe. 

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

If the draw bar is the same under the transmission as the standard one, there must be a lot of leverage pushing up there. 

 

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

 

Agreed.

I would not be super warm and fuzzy about putting more than 100 lb or so of tongue weight on that. 

As a standard in Europe, all tow balls on cars state a makes tongue weight of 75kg or 165lbs. So we in Europe are used to have a low tongue weight. Any trailer legally capable of more then 750kg (1600lbs) has mostly a dual axles (and requires a special licensee and yearly inspection when driving in the road)

Edited April 28, 2022 by Maxwell-8

[Maxwell-8 4,366]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

With the ball being so far above the pivot point on the transaxle

It is not as bad as it looks on picture, but tow balls have to have a certain height to fit a standard trailer

[JoeM 7,941]

I don't see the concern with limiting it to 100 lbs. even with the leverage. 

 

Anyone ever seen one of those eyes broken? 

 

I run a tow mower for cutting steep banks and it is on a 30" offset arm connected to a sleeve hitch. Way more force than 100 lbs. 

3 inches of casting pretty tough. I think you could pick up the entire machine by that eye with ease. 

[Handy Don 13,340]

31 minutes ago, JoeM said:

I think you could pick up the entire machine by that eye with ease. 

It isn't the force on the pin itself or from the pin to the casing. In fact, the WH assembly line did suspend the tractors between the transmission pin and the front attach-a-matic.

The concern is the drawbar's short arms that extend underneath. With this mount, they are lever arms up against a less robust part of the shell of the transaxle casing and are exerting point forces.

For your application, the offset is applying a torque but it is directly on the pin in the transaxle via the sleeve hitch. These are forces it was designed to handle.

[SylvanLakeWH 27,589]

I’ve always towed with the trailer tongue wheel down.
 

2 benefits: never risk of flip and takes weight off.

 

Im not concerned with the hitch breaking. I don’t like the lever design of the hitch that puts all the tongue weight on a single point of transmission bottom…

[Handy Don 13,340]

2 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I don’t like the lever design of the hitch that puts all the tongue weight on a single point of transmission bottom…

Exactly. The standard drawbar is meant for pulling with a little to no tongue weight. Use the lift cable (or a bolt-on hitch adaptor) to support a heavier tongue weight.

[ebinmaine 70,792]

And all of the points are above are exactly why I DON'T use those hitches.

 

Here's a light duty version. 

 

And here's one I'm building that's going to be able to hold whatever I throw at it. 

 

 

[JoeM 7,941]

9 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

With this mount, they are lever arms up against a less robust part of the shell of the transaxle casing and are exerting point forces

I see your point. 

How thick is the case in that area?  

I definitely would not want to have impact in that area. Constant pressure you could fulcrum the front of the machine off the ground.

I've never heard of one issue with the case. I have in fact seen some bent hitch bars.

Is this just another abundance of caution??  Limited to 100 lbs. that's nothing.

I really believe we should not abuse the machines. Towing is limited to control and having some weight on the rear tires (other then my slim pounds will help with stopping and traction).

Good conversation though. 

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,792]

3 minutes ago, JoeM said:

I see your point. 

How thick is the case in that area?  

I definitely would not want to have impact in that area. Constant pressure you could fulcrum the front of the machine off the ground.

I've never heard of one issue with the case. I have in fact seen some bent hitch bars.

Is this just another abundance of caution??  Limited to 100 lbs. that's nothing.

I really believe we should not abuse the machines. Towing is limited to control and having some weight on the rear tires (other then my slim pounds will help with stopping and traction).

Good conversation though. 

 

 

 

 

 

Just to clarify my point Joe...

When I mentioned a hundred pounds I was talking about downwood Force on the ball having the ability to bend the hitch.

I can't tell from the pictures but let's just say for example that the outer part of that hitch is twice as long as the portion that goes underneath the transmission. That would give you 200 lb of up force on the cast iron part at the bottom of the case.

I'm no metallurgist or engineer but I don't think that's a huge issue given the beefiness of these transmissions.

 

Also to clarify the hundred pounds, I was assuming a standard 10 to 20% tongue weight. 

As we all know these tractors are far more capable of pulling something than they are of stopping something.

Using a properly weighted and balanced tractor, I have pulled a good many loads well over a thousand pounds on steep terrain and will continue to do so. 

[SylvanLakeWH 27,589]

I’m gonna disagree with you on this @ebinmaine… these tractors do not have braking capable of stopping those kinds of loads on steep terrain. I too have pulled 1000 - 1500 pound boats, trailers etc. but only very slowly, with tongue wheel down and rolling, on very very flat terrain… if I need more I use my vehicle…

 

To easy to flip and not be able to stop a …

 

[lynnmor 7,575]

I cracked a case, it is in the left housing near the wear mark in the center of the photo.  I blame it on too much weight in the ballast box for my loader, and the long distance between case bolts.  Note how thick the housing is.

 

 

[ebinmaine 70,792]

7 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I’m gonna disagree with you on this @ebinmaine… these tractors do not have braking capable of stopping those kinds of loads on steep terrain. I too have pulled 1000 - 1500 pound boats, trailers etc. but only very slowly, with tongue wheel down and rolling, on very very flat terrain… if I need more I use my vehicle…

 

To easy to flip and not be able to stop a …

 

 

For the record I absolutely agree with you.

 

 

I genuinely do not believe that I am an accident / incident statistic waiting to happen or I wouldn't pull what I do but this is definitely a "do not try this at home"  situation.

 

It's important to remember that I'm well trained on the subjects of heavy and or awkward cargos and how to move them safely.

This is literally what I do for a living. 

I have a FAR better than average understanding of the great differences between static weights and dynamic load movement.

My tractors are specially set up with several hundred lbs of additional weight.

When moving heavy loads I travel quite slowly and keep a great awareness of all aspects of the situation.

 

So.... With all of the above said...

My big wheel tractor project will absolutely not use stock Horse brakes as it's only means. 

[JoeM 7,941]

47 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Note how thick the housing is.

What you think Lynn 3/8 5/16”

 

The way they were talking I though this is a common event. 
 

I did get a hydro machine from a guy that used it at a marina moving boats. The rear hitch had a 3/4 hole for a ball and was anything but straight. No case issues. 
 

I would be more concerned as to being bring out of control then picking a hole in the case especially with normal home use worse case moving a smaller boat around. 

[Bill D 2,095]

Still won't tow anything stuff that's too heavy, but won't break the case if I do.

[WHX?? 50,776]

Speaking of cracking cases guy has gotta wonder how a PO did this. I would doubt towing.  

[wallfish 17,507]

7 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Speaking of cracking cases guy has gotta wonder how a PO did this. I would doubt towing

That dam pin won't come out so get the BFH. Looks like the mushroomed end of the pin was driven into the hole