417A Kt17QS 24363 charging issue

[Stubby 19]

Only getting about 12 volts at the battery. Sometimes 11.93 and the battery is not fully charged. Not 1005 where to start in the system and what is the most likely cause. 

[pfrederi 17,741]

Regulator is circled.  Check for AC voltage on the outside terminals engine running should be about 30 VAC.  If it is and you are not getting 13.6 or more at the battery regulator is probably bad...but first get the battery fully charged and load tested before you buy a new regulator.

 

 

Edited April 10, 2022 by pfrederi

[Stubby 19]

Just touch one terminal at a time? Meaning ground one side of my meter to engine (ground) somewhere and then touch + side at a time. Both should get 30 volts each?

[953 nut 55,298]

 

3 hours ago, Stubby said:

Just touch one terminal at a time? Meaning ground one side of my meter to engine (ground) somewhere and then touch + side at a time. Both should get 30 volts each?    This is inaccurate information!

The center terminal of your regulator should be 12 volts DC with the ignition key on, without battery voltage the regulator won't work. The voltage on the two outer terminals with the engine running at high RPMs should be 36 volts AC +/- between the two outer terminals, not to ground

[Stubby 19]

20 hours ago, 953 nut said:

 

The center terminal of your regulator should be 12 volts DC with the ignition key on, without battery voltage the regulator won't work. The voltage on the two outer terminals with the engine running at high RPMs should be 36 volts AC +/- between the two outer terminals, not to ground

I am not getting any voltage on the center terminal. I also checked the same wire from the ignition to the connector and nothing. Wanted to make sure it was not the connector that is pictured. The connector did ohm so there is continuity through it.

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Stubby

[Handy Don 12,235]

The 12v at the center terminal of the VR with ignition ON and engine NOT running comes from the battery. You do have all the wiring connected, right?

 

So recap:

- all wiring connected

- ignition on, tractor NOT running

- center terminal of VR (red probe on DMM) to ground (black probe on DMM)  should show 12v DC (same as testing directly across the battery terminals)

If less than 12, you have a bad battery or bad grounds or bad connections and can stop here until you get that resolved (see note below).

 

Next test (note the difference between AC and DC on the DMM!):

- all wiring connected

- ignition on and tractor running well above idle speed

- outside terminals of voltage regulator (red probe on one, black probe on the other) should show ~35v AC

If you have <30 or >40 its likely the regulator has failed.

 

 

Note:

Body of voltage regulator MUST be solidly grounded.

 

Tractor wiring should have direct connections from the battery "+" to:

- the starter solenoid (heavy wire)

- the B terminal on the ignition switch (via fuse, standard wire)

 

Wiring should also have a connection from the R terminal on the ignition switch to the middle terminal on the voltage regulator.

When the igntion switch is ON, B and R are connected inside the ignition switch so the 12v from the battery becomes visible to the regulator.

 

[Stubby 19]

21 hours ago, Handy Don said:

The 12v at the center terminal of the VR with ignition ON and engine NOT running comes from the battery. You do have all the wiring connected, right?

 

So recap:

- all wiring connected

- ignition on, tractor NOT running

- center terminal of VR (red probe on DMM) to ground (black probe on DMM)  should show 12v DC (same as testing directly across the battery terminals)

If less than 12, you have a bad battery or bad grounds or bad connections and can stop here until you get that resolved (see note below).

 

Next test (note the difference between AC and DC on the DMM!):

- all wiring connected

- ignition on and tractor running well above idle speed

- outside terminals of voltage regulator (red probe on one, black probe on the other) should show ~35v AC

If you have <30 or >40 its likely the regulator has failed.

 

 

Note:

Body of voltage regulator MUST be solidly grounded.

 

Tractor wiring should have direct connections from the battery "+" to:

- the starter solenoid (heavy wire)

- the B terminal on the ignition switch (via fuse, standard wire)

 

Wiring should also have a connection from the R terminal on the ignition switch to the middle terminal on the voltage regulator.

When the igntion switch is ON, B and R are connected inside the ignition switch so the 12v from the battery becomes visible to the regulator.

 

It appears that I am going to have to tear it down to get to the ignition etc. Looks like it will have to wait until the weekend since I work a lot of hours during the week. I will update.

[peter lena 8,634]

@Stubby agree with @pfrederi  on that set up, another thing I  would try first is  added grounding to that  regulator bolt area, you can easily easily test it with alligator clip test wire to those bolt mounts near battery , going right to cowl mounting , if that ground brings it to life , make a strong ground mount like https://www.gordonelectricsupply.com/p/Ilsco-Ta-6-S-14-6-Alcu-Lug/6065614?  bolt on an added ground cable from the cowl bolts to the regulator. . worth a try , pete

[Stubby 19]

On 4/10/2022 at 3:37 PM, pfrederi said:

Regulator is circled.  Check for AC voltage on the outside terminals engine running should be about 30 VAC.  If it is and you are not getting 13.6 or more at the battery regulator is probably bad...but first get the battery fully charged and load tested before you buy a new regulator.

 

Regulator is circled.  Check for AC voltage on the outside terminals engine running should be about 30 VAC.  If it is and you are not getting 13.6 or more at the battery regulator is probably bad...but first get the battery fully charged and load tested before you buy a new regulator. (None of this is working, I have ohmed the center wire  to the ignition R and it ohms. Not getting any power to the center wire of VR plug from ignition.)

 

The 12v at the center terminal of the VR with ignition ON and engine NOT running comes from the battery. You do have all the wiring connected, right? (as far as I can tell at this point.)

 

So recap:

- all wiring connected (yes)

- ignition on, tractor NOT running (yes)

- center terminal of VR (red probe on DMM) to ground (black probe on DMM)  should show 12v DC (same as testing directly across the battery terminals) (nothing, grounded vr also and from vr to battery have voltage so ground is fine on vr. I also traced the solenoid to fuse to ignition B. solenoid to starter also big wire. It starts and runs fine, just dont charge. I am posting pictures of the ignition. The B terminal looks bad, but the previous owner connected the B on ignition to the board for the test panel that also has the wire to the solenoid with the fuse in line. With the key on not getting voltage on the R side of the ignition.

If less than 12, you have a bad battery or bad grounds or bad connections and can stop here until you get that resolved (see note below).

 

Next test (note the difference between AC and DC on the DMM!):

- all wiring connected

- ignition on and tractor running well above idle speed

- outside terminals of voltage regulator (red probe on one, black probe on the other) should show ~35v AC

If you have <30 or >40 its likely the regulator has failed.

 

 

Note:

Body of voltage regulator MUST be solidly grounded.

 

Tractor wiring should have direct connections from the battery "+" to:

- the starter solenoid (heavy wire)

- the B terminal on the ignition switch (via fuse, standard wire)

 

Wiring should also have a connection from the R terminal on the ignition switch to the middle terminal on the voltage regulator.

When the igntion switch is ON, B and R are connected inside the ignition switch so the 12v from the battery becomes visible to the regulator.

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Stubby

[Stubby 19]

I want to make sure your reference to key on, is just the key forward, not starting etc? I ohm the regulator wire, from the regulator to the ignition switch and it ohms fine. Just do not get any voltage with key in on position with tractor not running.

With the key on, this is what I am getting at the ignition. So far al the wiring checks out.

Edited April 16, 2022 by Stubby

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Since there is no power on the R terminal that is likely the problem. First off a regulator requires battery voltage to regulate the charge current and the power supplied has no way to get to the battery. 

Click on the picture in each link for more.

 

[Stubby 19]

thank you all very much it was the ignition switch. Replaced and putting over 14 volts to the battery.