Fuel Pump...Replace or rebuild?

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

So the fuel pump on my k241 isn't working.  I cleaned it out with carb cleaner during the rebuild.  It was dirty but kept flushing till it came out clean.  When cycling the engine it did not pull gas.  I could blow through it and air made it through.  I sucked some air to get fuel in and it is leaking at the seam.  So that is probably why it can't build pressure.  But do you replace or rebuild these?

 

Nothing like one more set back when you're engine rebuild is complete... 

[ebinmaine 67,591]

Is it a lever style pump?

I'd rebuild. 

 

There are generic kits available all over the interwebs. 

Can't speak for quality. 

 

Then and now automotive in Massachusetts sells a kit that's known to be good quality. 

 

 

Also.... Seems more and more folks are switching over to electric fuel pumps.  

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,714]

5 minutes ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

do you replace or rebuild these

Part of that depends on your knowledge and experience... the other part depends on your budget and will.

 

@squonk if I recall correctly, may tell you to go electric. I concur with that.

 

EDIT: I do know 1 guy who went with one of these 10$ pumps... and had good luck...

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203509030055?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2f62155ca7:g:h9MAAOSw9Klg28Vp&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA4CYb2LKomCaWUVOO3wHEmo1tSNPlwbi3o0FrdjjBn68rAS3cjl0yDB%2BcVQsjZNVduQAa8ssYY4skokM5skawpadDjoLqMEUos6gGNRCm2LOZ%2B54N6a3xEaFWmjl6fgNEuMSWr%2FgzYkIJjn7VGjSwLOlGq335dpWnzMwVjdCuIOSCaFr%2Bqd1LRVtVglEub3tia5fXDvJe%2Bnmm46Rp93Px3mk%2FFkOGS1HsSfDPhdRJkgAaMsEEhvSLvBLzdAu9zEzeff5H0ulfHCmo2HJui7mIl7X%2FMFYCh7%2Bnpgb1Dqq1sbG4|tkp%3ABFBM4KWngIJg

 

Don

Edited April 9, 2022 by Snoopy11

[Snoopy11 5,714]

14 minutes ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

it is leaking at the seam

If it is just leaking at the seam... it may be worth buying a rebuild kit from iSaveTractors...

 

IST part: FUE01004

 

Don

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

21 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Is it a lever style pump?

I'd rebuild.

 

Yes it is.  It's original to the engine is my guess.  metal inlet fittings for the hoses instead of plastic.  I like the idea of keeping the metal ones.

[953 nut 55,297]

I have been replacing mechanical fuel pumps with electric whenever a problem is encountered. If the diaphragm goes bad on a mechanical pump it can allow gasoline to get into the crankcase and ruin your engine.    

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Then and now automotive in Massachusetts sells a kit that's known to be good quality

I forgot about those guys.  They hooked me up with some parts for an ancient Accord some time ago that I thought were non existent.

[Handy Don 12,235]

The design is proven and reliable. It does rely on the two check valves and the diaphragm -- the maintenance instructions are in the Kohler engine manual.

I just redid one and it had debris stuck in one of the check valves. Once gently cleared, the valves worked properly and, along with a new diaphragm, it pulled and pushed water in my testing just fine and once I get the engine back together, I'm confident it'll do just fine.

Get a the quality diaphragm and do a careful rebuilt, is my advice. YMMV!

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

On 4/9/2022 at 4:44 PM, Snoopy11 said:

If it is just leaking at the seam... it may be worth buying a rebuild kit from iSaveTractors...

Oddly enough, I just ordered one for the K341, as the diaphragm’s leaking.  Not that dripping gas right next to the muffler is a problem or anything…

Edited April 14, 2022 by EB-80/8inPA

[Handy Don 12,235]

8 minutes ago, EB-80/8inPA said:

Oddly enough, I just ordered one for the K341, as the diaphragm’s leaking.  Not that dripping gas right next to the muffler is a problem or anything…

There is a very specific step in reassembly that is critical...the diaphragm must be extended (by moving the pump arm to its full suction position) as the body halves are tightened together. That is Arm UP to pull the Diaphragm DOWN. Yes, it's kind of a three-hand operation!

Also, it's important to confirm that, like an aluminum head, the mating surfaces of the pump body are flat! The one I just did had high spots at all four bolt holes that needed flattening out.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

1 hour ago, EB-80/8inPA said:

Not that dripping gas right next to the muffler is a problem or anything…

I have no better comment... than...

 

 

 

Don

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

20 hours ago, Handy Don said:

There is a very specific step in reassembly that is critical...the diaphragm must be extended (by moving the pump arm to its full suction position) as the body halves are tightened together. That is Arm UP to pull the Diaphragm DOWN. Yes, it's kind of a three-hand operation!

Also, it's important to confirm that, like an aluminum head, the mating surfaces of the pump body are flat! The one I just did had high spots at all four bolt holes that needed flattening out.

Thanks.  I believe @ebinmainehas also noted how tricky that is.  I looked for how-to vids on YouTube and found nothing.  Many were labeled with “repair” or “fix” in the title, but only involved swapping it out.  No help there that I could find.  I guess one learns by doing (the hard way) lol.

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

19 hours ago, Snoopy11 said:

I have no better comment... than...

No gasoline was consumed in the conflagration of that car!  But, yeah.  Point taken!

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

I did order a rebuild kit so I appreciate the advice on the pump.  You guys might check daily for distress call if I can’t figure it out.  
 

I’m assuming you can start the screws a little so the diaphragm remains in place.  Then finish tightening all the way at full pressure?

[ebinmaine 67,591]

17 minutes ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

I did order a rebuild kit so I appreciate the advice on the pump.  You guys might check daily for distress call if I can’t figure it out.  
 

I’m assuming you can start the screws a little so the diaphragm remains in place.  Then finish tightening all the way at full pressure?

@Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,235]

3 hours ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

I did order a rebuild kit so I appreciate the advice on the pump.  You guys might check daily for distress call if I can’t figure it out.  
 

I’m assuming you can start the screws a little so the diaphragm remains in place.  Then finish tightening all the way at full pressure?

Yes, you do start the screws and leave a bit of a gap while you hold the pump lever and then tighten.(@ebinmaine)

 

What really threw me off at first (as in "is this the right kit?") was that the holes in the diaphragm didn't line up with the pump body holes--it seemed too big. Then it dawned on me that pulling down the diaphragm with the pump lever would pull these holes into their proper positions. Aha! So you have to finesse the screws through the top of the body, through the diaphragm holes, and start them into the lower body. You'll think at first that the diaphragm is going to have a fold or crease at the joint but once it's pulled down it flattens out so you can tighten the screws. After you've done it, it all makes perfect sense!

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Handy Don

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

Well I can't imagine why it wasn't working...

 

 

Had a major fail though.  As I was cleaning up all the corrosion the little screw that held the plunger part from the inlet broke.  I was using a pick to clear around it and the spring and it just snapped with pretty little pressure.

 

 

So I'll be ordering a new one.  Any recommendations on a decent after market one?  Amazon Prime would be my preferred option if any of those are decent.  This was suppose to be my low budget build...but the parts just keep piling up...

 

 

Edited April 11, 2022 by OutdoorEnvy

[Handy Don 12,235]

27 minutes ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

This was suppose to be my low budget build...but the parts just keep piling up..

I can totally relate to this sentiment.

 

That was one sad pump! The way the check valves are clinched into the body makes replacing them difficult--even if you could find a new valve!

 

 The new pumps I've seen for sale all have plastic bodies and I've no hands-on experience with them. Plastic isn't necessarily bad, IMHO. Might put a Wanted in the Classifieds to see if someone who has gone electric has a mechanical they would donate to the cause!

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

I'm debating about switching to an electric fuel pump.  Looks easier and more reliable at this point.  Wondering if they flood the carburetor though since they always move fuel when on? 

[Handy Don 12,235]

2 minutes ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

I'm debating about switching to an electric fuel pump.  Looks easier and more reliable at this point.  Wondering if they flood the carburetor though since they always move fuel when on? 

Some different schools of thought there. Some leave the electric on all the time; some use them only at the start and let the mechanical pump or gravity handle the running engine. For always on, you need only a low pressure (1-3 psi), low volume pump to head off any potential for flooding the carb. Several good threads on members' experience with recommendations if you search.

 

Assuming you'd not re-install your pump, you'll need a blank plate to cover the hole in your block.

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

25 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Some different schools of thought there. Some leave the electric on all the time; some use them only at the start and let the mechanical pump or gravity handle the running engine. For always on, you need only a low pressure (1-3 psi), low volume pump to head off any potential for flooding the carb. Several good threads on members' experience with recommendations if you search.

 

Assuming you'd not re-install your pump, you'll need a blank plate to cover the hole in your block.

 

Roger that Don!  I actually just went and hooked up a line to see if gravity feeding it would work and it is darn close but looks to be 2-3 inches too high for a consistent flow. 

[peter lena 8,634]

@OutdoorEnvy   been using 2  fuel filters  for years , one  close to tank , back of frame shifter area , other up front before pump , no debris in my fuel bowls , clear vinyl hose , up to check valve , to carb , no issues , pete 

[burr95 7]

Put electric pumps on my three 312s, never had a flooding problem.

[Handy Don 12,235]

5 hours ago, OutdoorEnvy said:

 

Roger that Don!  I actually just went and hooked up a line to see if gravity feeding it would work and it is darn close but looks to be 2-3 inches too high for a consistent flow. 

 

8 minutes ago, burr95 said:

Put electric pumps on my three 312s, never had a flooding problem.

 

Electric pumps are neat but are not cheap .

Should add that for gravity to work, you need the fuel level in the tank to remain well above the carb over whatever terrain you'll be traversing! On a full tank, I can go anywhere with my gravity-only LR; on half tank or less it starves going up the hill in the back yard. 

[Redav72 227]

Any recommendations on a decent quality electric?  I just had a cheap unit from Amazon fail on me.