522xi trans surges

[AveryO 1]

Hello all 

I just acquired a 522xi tractor. The tractor was used previously to plow snow. The trans seams to slip and the surge as if it just grabs all of a sudden. It seams fine in reverse at all speeds. I have changed the trans oil and filter and cleaned the power steaming filter. 
Since it just happened it forward I am assuming it is probably a issue in the hydro drive and not the trans. Any help would be appreciated. Also do they still sell parts to rebuild one of these units?

[JoeM 7,874]

Lots of questions. 

How many hours and the PO say if it happened all of a sudden or over time.

 

The number 1 mechanical place to look.

On machines that are used alot for snow plowing, especially the xi machines. The axle hubs can come loose and wear. It is odd but they will do just what you are describing. the sure bet would be to take off the wheel weights and apply a witness mark across the hub and axle. Have someone try it and note is any misalignment of the mark/line.

 

 

Yes the hydros are repairable but the transmission assembly will need to be removed from the machine to get the hydro pump off. Because the hydro control on the side of the pump and can't be removed unless the unit is out of the frame rails.

If it is a hydro unit and seen the same pump runs the same motor forward and reverse. The two circles areas would be suspect.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by JoeM

[AveryO 1]

Thanks very much for the quick response. The unit says it has 861 hours. I was given this unit so I don’t know the past history. I got the motor going and it sounds great. The plow Frame  need welding and a new ignition switch and battery so far. 
I will check the axel hubs this weekend. Are there any good videos on rebuilding one of these hydro units? 
Also if it is the hubs, would it not also happen in reverse if they the problem. I have not experienced it in reverse. When moving forward it almost goes into a freewheel then engages hard jerking forward very abruptly. 
thanks again. I will check it out

[JoeM 7,874]

1 hour ago, AveryO said:

Also if it is the hubs, would it not also happen in reverse if they the problem

Maybe, here is one that acted like your saying. The xi machines use a straight key not like the other machines using a woodruff key The keyway in the axle is wallered out. The hub was also. Backward the key rolls up into a locked position. when going forward it falls out of the position and will catch and not catch. This one needed the axle replace it was worn bad. 

 

 

Youtube eaton 1100 hydro repair. 

 

I also use this file, I have made a few videos, but no eaton hydro ones. 

 

Eaton 11 Repair Manual and Parts with bypass notes.pdf

 

[JoeM 7,874]

I was doing just about the same thing your doing on a machine that had been let go.

I welded the hub on temporary to run the machine before I did all that work of pulling the trans and splitting the case.

 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,451]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

Maybe, here is one that acted like your saying. The xi machines use a straight key not like the other machines using a woodruff key The keyway in the axle is wallered out. The hub was also. Backward the key rolls up into a locked position. when going forward it falls out of the position and will catch and not catch. This one needed the axle replace it was worn bad. 

 

 

Youtube eaton 1100 hydro repair. 

 

I also use this file, I have made a few videos, but no eaton hydro ones. 

 

Eaton 11 Repair Manual and Parts with bypass notes.pdf 4.65 MB · 0 downloads

 

This sounds very plausible @JoeM, and while the repair would require a opening the transaxle, that's a lot simpler than working on the hydro!

[AveryO 1]

Hello all 

I tore into the hubs and found as all of you had told me the the keyway and hub was bad. Sure enough it was just as you said.both sides were bad.  Thanks again for the insight. 
AO

[Handy Don 12,451]

40 minutes ago, AveryO said:

Hello all 

I tore into the hubs and found as all of you had told me the the keyway and hub was bad. Sure enough it was just as you said.both sides were bad.  Thanks again for the insight. 
AO

 

 

@JoeM you win the prize for today. Great call! 

 

AO, it isn't a trivial fix, but it looks like you will be back in the saddle after a new axles, new hubs, seals, a gasket, some gear oil and, of course, some time and effort!

Once you have the part numbers for the hub and axle and tractor year/model, add a listing in the Classified Wanted adds here on the forum. Good chance someone will pipe up having what you need.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Handy Don

[JoeM 7,874]

A-Z has these might help.

[AveryO 1]

Has any one tried drilling straight through the axle and hub and running a hardened bold straight through.. don’t know if the axle is hardened. I may also weld short term. Don’t want to put to much money before this rest of the unit is proven out to be in good shape.

[Handy Don 12,451]

10 minutes ago, JoeM said:

A-Z has these might help.

I was at A-to-Z a couple weeks ago to pick up some parts and looked at one of these hubs. They are absolutely bombproof--full stop.

You can forget having a repeat of the wallowed out axles with these--they clench to the axle all the way around, not just at the key.

If I needed new hubs on a really hard working machine, I'd be looking at these. A good used standard hub will be $50+ so the price seems worth it to me.

[Handy Don 12,451]

1 minute ago, AveryO said:

Has any one tried drilling straight through the axle and hub and running a hardened bold straight through.. don’t know if the axle is hardened. I may also weld short term. Don’t want to put to much money before this rest of the unit is proven out to be in good shape.

The axle is hardened at the bearing races, but clearly is not hardened at the hub (the key would have sheared before a hardened axle deformed).

 

A through bolt is NOT a good idea. It severely weakens both the axle and the hub AND puts all the torque on a very small area of the axle & hub where they butt against the bolt. It might work for a show tractor that was doing no work, but for a worker? No way.

 

If you are thinking of a temporary solution, given that your axles and hubs are already toast, I'd consider a skilled welder welding them. BUT FIRST, I'd preemptively replace the about-to-become-inacessible axle oil seals!

[Handy Don 12,451]

Just had another thought...

I'd give Lincoln at A-Z a call next week and ask him about the possibility of using these clench hubs on your wallowed axles by just cleaning them back to round and fitting a "good enough" key. Not a cheap fix, but would not involve opening the transaxle.

[pfrederi 17,866]

If you have access to a welder you can make a key substitute out of brass fill in the gaps then use a regular key.

[JoeM 7,874]

23 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

make a key substitute out of brass fill in the gaps then use a regular key

Forgot about that repair

ED's thread on the key fix.

 

[Handy Don 12,451]

4 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Forgot about that repair

ED's thread on the key fix.

 

This can help with the axles, but if your hubs are also wallowed, it will be in vain.

[JoeM 7,874]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

This can help with the axles, but if your hubs are also wallowed, it will be in vain

Figure if the axle looks like that.....those hubs are paper weights.

Like you said those tapers are the bomb. Well worth the cash!

I did not spend a lot of time on the dodge PDF, do you recall the over and under shaft tolerance? + or - .0025?

[Handy Don 12,451]

5 minutes ago, JoeM said:

Figure if the axle looks like that.....those hubs are paper weights.

Like you said those tapers are the bomb. Well worth the cash!

I did not spend a lot of time on the dodge PDF, do you recall the over and under shaft tolerance? + or - .0025?

No, I didn't delve into the tolerances, sorry.

I did notice in another thread today that the specs show that the clenching force from the "collet" onto the axle yields a higher torque moment than the keyway. THAT is impressive.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Handy Don