Hydro lost pulling power

[TonyI 2]

I have a 418-c  worked great plowing over the winter.. but now is having no power pulling a load fwd.

replaced the fluid.. the old fluid didn't look bad. feels a littls better., but still significant loss of power and high pitched whine coming out of the hydro.  the lift works fine

 

is there a repair manual our there for the hydro?  Is there a way to reverse flush the system?   I hear sometimes the hoses crack internally and clog things up.

[WHX?? 48,795]

I'll call in some hydro experts. 

@daveoman1966 @pfrederi

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

 to the  Tony.     The hydro experts Jim called should be here soon to help.   Did you check for external  problems like a sheared hub or input pulley key, or a slipping drive belt ?

[daveoman1966 3,745]

The 418-C has an Eaton hydro and I'm not at all familiar with them. 

[WHX?? 48,795]

I always forget the simple things first Ed. 

Take a sharpie and draw a line across the hubs and pullies and see if the lines  move. 

I have not heard of the cracking hose syndrome. 

Any idea what year Tony. Just guessing it's an Eaton 1100 tranny? 

Yes we have the manuals here. 

Thank you Dave. 

[JoeM 7,871]

If it all of a sudden lost power and you checked all the things Ed mentioned it's not a wear issue more like a blown o'ring on the internal damping piston. This will allow a significant amount of oil to bypass. You say the lift is good, that says the charge pump is working and not an issue.

 

damping piston #43 on the drawing.

 

[JoeM 7,871]

Eaton 11 Repair Manual 1.pdf

[roadapples 6,983]

[WHX?? 48,795]

Thanks Joe I can't do that on a tablet and I don't think I have that one anyway. I do now! 

[JoeM 7,871]

Another good manual. nice troubleshooting area for WH's

Eaton 11 Repair Manual and Parts.pdf

 

 

[Handy Don 12,163]

If the lift is working but motion isn't then it likely is an internal issue but checking the input drive pulleys for slippage is worth checking. Good luck.

[TonyI 2]

4 hours ago, WHX?? said:

I always forget the simple things first Ed. 

Take a sharpie and draw a line across the hubs and pullies and see if the lines  move. 

I have not heard of the cracking hose syndrome. 

Any idea what year Tony. Just guessing it's an Eaton 1100 tranny? 

Yes we have the manuals here. 

Thank you Dave. 

 

I believe it's and 87. no serial number on the chassis.. it's worn off, but looks good compared to the other 417A's I have. . definitely an Eaton on there.  I did just replace the fan, as the old one was all broken up, and there was a ton of grass in the compartment just under the panel.
I'll check on the hubs and pulleys.. do you have an illustration on where to mark them?

 

[953 nut 55,099]

My Eatom has not given me any problems but a high pitched whine is fluid bypassing like @JoeM said. The Acceleration Valves are passing a significant amount of fluid because of the "O" Ring. I have had a similar problem with the Sundstrand Hydros.

Please let us know if you dive into this problem so we can all follow along.

If your decision is to replace it with a good used unit I would suggest you call Lincoln at  https://a-ztractor.com/

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

418-C was produced only for the 1987 model year.

[Ed Kennell 38,028]

7 hours ago, TonyI said:

do you have an illustration on where to mark them?

Just draw a line across the end of the shafts and hub.    

[JoeM 7,871]

just another internal drawing 

All the oil in the 1100 is moved via porting integral to the rotating group. Any debris, in the charge circuit, from valves, hoses, etc would get caught in the filter prior to entering the hydro for use. The design is excellent and reinforces the importance of a good quality filter.

The check valves just lay in drilled holes and really can't get out. 

I put a note in the drawing if you hand push the machine and hear clicking coming from the hydro that is the acceleration valves, a good indication the springs are good.

 

 

[TonyI 2]

do the 417a and 418c have the same Eaton 1100 ? 

[Handy Don 12,163]

8 minutes ago, TonyI said:

do the 417a and 418c have the same Eaton 1100 ? 

Across the years, there are some minor variations in the Eaton 1100s but for practical purposes they are the same.

Understand the excessive heat is bad news for hydrostatics.  Lots of material caking it (acting as insulation) and a broken fan may have caused it to overheat and incur internal damage.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Handy Don

[pfrederi 17,674]

45 minutes ago, TonyI said:

do the 417a and 418c have the same Eaton 1100 ? 

Hydro is the same there is a difference in gearing in the transaxle.  418c was fast4er than a 418a or 417a

[TonyI 2]

thanks for all the suggestions on this topic!.. I've been doing the easy stuff first.. I flushed the fluid, and marked the hubs.. no slippage there.  checking the drive belt, it was loose and cracked so I replaced it with a new 82-inch belt 5LK82, and the tractor was still loosing power going up-hill. so I put on a 5LK81 (1-in shorter belt) and it now has plenty of power.. but if I engage the PTO she'll backfire like crazy.. so not optimum.

 

Does anyone know the distance from the engine to the hydro or if there is a way to adjust the distance so I can get a better fit with the 82-inch belt.

[Thor27 767]

There is no real adjustment on that distance, a toro 108501 belt @ 81-1/2" "should" be the right one. When I tried an 82" it wants to rub on itself by the idler.

[lynnmor 7,302]

The engine mounting bolts may be loose and their holes may be elongated from wear.

 

The backfiring might be caused by a poor electrical connection in the PTO safety system.

[953 nut 55,099]

9 hours ago, TonyI said:

but if I engage the PTO she'll backfire like crazy.

Like @lynnmor said the engine acting up sounds like an electrical problem. Remove the battery and clean the area where the PTO lever comes through to operate the PTO Safety switch. Make sure none of the connections are corroded or wires chafed. Do the same at the seat switch, a chafed wire there could be the problem.

[TonyI 2]

17 hours ago, Thor27 said:

There is no real adjustment on that distance, a toro 108501 belt @ 81-1/2" "should" be the right one. When I tried an 82" it wants to rub on itself by the idler.

that 1/2-inch sounds exactly like what I need. will get a couple ordered and post an update.

[TonyI 2]

On 4/19/2022 at 5:36 PM, TonyI said:

that 1/2-inch sounds exactly like what I need. will get a couple ordered and post an update.

 

ok.. the OEM 81-1/2-inch belt did the trick.. the 418-c is now moving fwd and reverse fine. .now I need to check the PTO.   it back fires only when the deck is engaged.. and the deck turns easily by hand.   with no belt it still  stall's out.   will clean the PTO switches tomorrow.. the seat switch was already bypassed when I got the machine..  could there be something in the clutch causing too much load on the engine?