Electric PTO

[trident 2]

Need some help. My 800 Special has an electric PTO. It is not working. Checked Ohms - nothing. My questions are 1) how does the PTO come off and 2) can they be rebuilt? I took the bolt out that I thought holds it on but no luck. Must be something more?

[trident 2]

Got it off. It was hitting on the belt guard. Took the guard off and the PTO slid right off. Now to repair if possible or replace.

[953 nut 55,298]

Was the electric clutch getting voltage when the switch was turned on?  Many times the vibration of the engine and the load placed on the electric PTO clutch will cause the epoxy that holds the wires in place to fracture and the wire will vibrate and eventually break. Here is a good thread on the PTOs.

  

 

[kpinnc 12,083]

A soft start clutch controller would greatly reduce the shock of engaging the PTO. It measures the speed of the engine from the spark plug wire and uses pulses to engage the clutch more slowly. 

 

I don't know if they are compatible with the older Borg-Warner clutches for certain, but mine works wonders with my Ogura clutch. I've been using mine for two years and it works great. 

 

Might be worth looking into.

 

https://www.gdimeters.com/products.cfm?Page=Products&Product=SoftStart Clutch Controller

Edited March 17, 2022 by kpinnc

[trident 2]

I got the PTO apart. Both electrical wires are broken off inside. Best solder to use? Silver solder? It looks like the coil wires were at one time also coated. Should I redo that too? 

[953 nut 55,298]

@Achto, @WHX?? @pfrederi @Pullstart what do you think, I have never attempted to repair one of these.

[Achto 27,601]

4 hours ago, trident said:

Best solder to use? Silver solder?

 

I have not had to make this repair but, I would think that silver solder would be the best route. I would also coat/ cover the wires, some insolation can't hurt anything.

[WHX?? 48,828]

Strike two here as I never had to make that repair yet either.  Silver solder might be the best but getting to CLEAN ends of the coil is what might scare me. Silver solder will yield the best strength but requires a bit higher heat which may or may not  be detrimental to the rest of the coil pack. 

I would be more inclined to replace but since it's already broke wouldn't hurt to give it the ole college try. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by WHX??

[Handy Don 12,235]

38 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Strike two here as I never had to make that repair yet either.  Silver solder might be the best but getting to CLEAN ends of the coil is what might scare me. Silver solder will yield the best strength but requires a bit higher heat which may or may not  be detrimental to the rest of the coil pack. 

I would be more inclined to replace but since it's already broke wouldn't hurt to give it the ole college try. 

Heat is definitely your enemy, @trident. The coil wires' coating can melt and permit wires to short out, I would strongly consider a mechanical connection instead--a crimp collar comes to mind and make sure that it's well insulated afterward.

That said, I've made repairs to small electric motor windings but never one of these clutches.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Handy Don

[Pullstart 62,905]

No ideas here, but please keep us informed on your work!  As mentioned, you can’t hurt it any worse…

[Achto 27,601]

9 hours ago, WHX?? said:

since it's already broke wouldn't hurt to give it the ole college try. 

 

Yep!! Can't wreck it if it's already wrecked.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

if you can get the wire cleaned is there room for bare butt connectors. They would give the mechanical strength required and solder would seal the connection. Shrink tubing would insulate the joints.

[WHX?? 48,828]

Not a huge fan of butt connectors but Garry may be on to something using bare ones, shrink wrap and these...

 

[Handy Don 12,235]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

bare butt connectors

These are used in many appliances connecting heating coils to input power wiring. Good crimping tool is essential and I'd add dielectric grease to resist future corrosion in a tractor setting.

 

 

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

solder would seal the connection

I'd avoid solder altogether--by the time you heat the connection enough to melt solder, the coils's insulation may have melted negating the entire effort.

 

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Shrink tubing would insulate

Shrinks at much lower temp so a good choice (use heat gun, of course, not a flame!)

[trident 2]

Anybody have the part number for the PTO? Mine is mounted to an 11 hp Briggs and Stratton

PTO.HEIC

[Handy Don 12,235]

8 minutes ago, trident said:

Anybody have the part number for the PTO? Mine is mounted to an 11 hp Briggs and Stratton

PTO.HEIC 2.08 MB · 1 download

It'll likely be in the IPL for your tractor. Search for "tractor mmmm" in files/documents with "use all my words as search terms" option set on where "mmmm" is the model, for example: 1100

Edited March 22, 2022 by Handy Don

[pfrederi 17,741]

Does your PTO look like this???  I assume you tried to post a picture but your apple world pics in HEIC format aren't easily viewable by the rest of the world.

 

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by pfrederi

[trident 2]

Yes it looks just like that. Sorry, I'm not very savy with computers. More of a get-er-done busted knuckle guy. But, I am what I am. lol.  What photo format works best for pictures here?

 

Edited March 23, 2022 by trident

[pfrederi 17,741]

Okay pics do best on here as a .jpg. 

 

They haven't made these in years so yo are looking for a used one.  The style changes slightly but the are interchangeable but for one thing.  Crankshaft diameter.  The one i pictured is for a 1-1/8 crank shaft (FYI part number was 7915)  If you crankshaft is 1" number would be different.  Only one part of the unit is different between 1 and 1-1/8.  To pull the PTO off so you and measure your shaft do NOT us a gear puller.  You remove the small bolt in the center (will probably be 7/16 NF)  Then look inside and you will some much larger threads as part of the PTO.  Depending on the age of the unit could be 5/8NC 7/8NC or even 1" NC.  Get a bolt that size 4 or 5 inches long. Screw it in it will bottom and you keep turning the PTO will start to come off the crank.

 

Check with AtoZ tractor a vendor here.. Post a want add here and look at Ebay

[pfrederi 17,741]

I should add the field coil is the same on a 1 or 1-1/8" PTO

[squonk 41,150]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:37 AM, Achto said:

 

Yep!! Can't wreck it if it's already wrecked.

You can't spoil a rotten egg! 

 

These babies might work. Low temp solder melts with a heat gun and casing shrinks.

 

 

https://powerwerx.com/heat-shrink-solder-sleeve-crimpless-connectors

[trident 2]

I've got some of those. was not too impressed with them but in this case maybe worth a try. Good suggestion.

[trident 2]

Pfrederi - My B&S has a 1 inch crankshaft. Could I not just match another (new) PTO to the engine? Not sure why an original Wheel Horse PTO is needed. That Briggs was used on more than Wheel Horse. I'm not crazy about buying another 52 yr. old PTO off E-Bay that is also on it's last legs.

Thanks for the info. It's a learning curve for sure.

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

If you could find a new PTO with an appropriate size pulley and could fabricate a  mounting it could work. The PTO was not a WH product.  Heim Warner I believe..

[oliver2-44 9,759]

If you want to coat the existing coil you should use an electrical insulating paint such as Glyptal Very gently clean the outside of the coil very throughly. Painting over contamination such as carbon does more harm than good. 
You can use some spray electrical cleaner and a tooth brush. Test the spray cleaner to make sure it doesn’t soften/dissolve the old insulation. I use a citrus based cleaner when I can find it. After cleaning place in a warm area to dry the insulation very throughly. Got it a couple of light coats.