854 vs B80?

[clueless 3,011]

Okay you tranny guys ( Steve) Is the 4sp transaxle on the '74 B80 any tougher than the one on the 854?

 

[ebinmaine 68,285]

I'm kind of thinking unless you're pushing them both to the outer limits of their capabilities it would never be an issue.

They're NOT a direct swap. Brake drum is in a different location.

 

 

I'm curious to know what prompts the question...

[WHX?? 49,152]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

you're pushing them both to the outer limits of their capabilities

Lets get one of both and have fun finding out! 

I have to say a B80 might have a slight edge as its newer but might be splitting hairs.

@stevasaurus will be along with pinion counts. 

[ebinmaine 68,285]

21 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

pinion counts.

I'm not at all sure on the 854 but the B80 in 1974 and 1975 is a four-speed with a four pinion. 

[pfrederi 17,866]

854 had  a 5025 Tranny 4 pinion 1" axles

 

1974 B80 shows two trannies 5080 and 5084.  I suspect difference is one had one piece pinions the other a separate pinion gear and shaft... Which is better I leave to Steve.

[stevasaurus 22,858]

Good question Chris...the answer is they are exactly the same...as far as what is inside.  The 854 came with the #5025 which is a 3 speed...brake drum on the 11/44 tooth gear.  The 74' B-80 came with the 4 speed  #5080 or #5084...brake drum on the cluster gear shaft.  As far as the differential pinions, Paul is correct, the #5080 had the pinions with the separate shaft...the #5084 had the one piece pinions.  I doubt either is stronger then the other, usually it is about costs.  One thing that might make a difference, the 4 speeds had longer axles (all of the 3 & 4 speed had 1" diameter axles) because they had wider tires and had to be set out more from the chassis and to clear the new fenders.  This would put more pressure on the outer axle needle bearings, but would 1" or a little more make any difference really.  I don't know.  

   Except the Heavy Duty 3 speeds had 1 1/8" axles and the bevel gear differential.

[WHX?? 49,152]

6 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

   Except the Heavy Duty 3 speeds had 1 1/8" axles and the bevel gear differential

Would that be a 5058 or a 5045? 

[stevasaurus 22,858]

Yes Jim.    I had to say that because Richard would point that out if I did not.  

[Handy Don 12,451]

39 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

One thing that might make a difference, the 4 speeds had longer axles (all of the 3 & 4 speed had 1" diameter axles)

Is there a reference chart that shows the overall widths (axle end to axle end) of the different transmissions?

I have the one that lists all the year, model, type, axle lengths and part numbers, and seal dimensions and part numbers. Is it as simple as adding the axle lengths and then some (constant or trans-specific) amount for the inter-axle space inside the differential?

[stevasaurus 22,858]

@Handy Don the space between the axles inside the differential is the same for "all" the manual Wheel Horse transmissions.  If that is what you are asking.  That is, all of the axles can butt up to each other inside the differential, and because of the (either the roll pins or the "C" clips) on the end of the axles...they can move as much as 1/8" apart.

   All of the 3, 4 and 8 speeds have axles that are the same length, except the 8 speed 10 pinion Limited Slip...those axles are a different length.  Without looking, I think the right side is longer then the left...it is not much...maybe 1/2" to 1".

   All of the others are the same length.  You could come off the outer end of the axles with a square and measure the total distance and divide by 2 to get the length of each axle.  This chart is accurate at this point.

 

[stevasaurus 22,858]

What you have to do with that chart above...determine which transmission you have,  Go into the "Manual's Section" and find a tractor schematic that shows the part numbers for that transmission.  Take the part numbers for the axles and open the above chart.  Boom-Sha-Ka-Lac-A!!!  Now you know how long your axles are without opening up your transmission...or take a square and measure the distance between the total length of the axles and divide by 2...unless it is a 10 pinion.    This is American ingenuity at it's best.

[Handy Don 12,451]

 

@stevasaurus Thanks agan!

 

So, I have a 10-pinon (5060 - aluminum diff end plates) .

 

Spec lists the axles at 11.25" and 12" and that tally's exactly with my end to end measure of 23.25" with the axles "pushed in and touching"!  I'm assuming the LSD differential is 0.375" off-center and so the axles compensate for it. It seems like lots of the "equal length" axles are 11⅝" (so the same 23.25" track). Yep, ingenuity all over the place.

 

 

[Handy Don 12,451]

Back with another question @stevasaurus,

 

@ebinmaine gave me a "heads up" that holes at the front of the transmission might let oil spill out (I was about to transport a 5025). I didn't get any leakage but forgot to probe the holes before letting it go. It had four mounting holes.

 

The 5060 that I just brought home, though, has five holes in the front (oil drained before transport). Three are "blind" (blue arrows), and two are "through" into the interior of the trans (red arrows)--one is a mounting hole but I don't have any idea what the other one is. Maybe something related to the Hi-Lo shifter and needing access during assembly/disassembly Can you shed light on this, please?

 

Also, should I be doing anything in particular to either or both of those "red" holes when mounting this thing to the tractor?

 

Thanks!

 

[pfrederi 17,866]

Small red arrow hole should have a plug in it. (or at least a bit of RTV sealant. It is access to shift rail balls...

[stevasaurus 22,858]

That is were you build your détente ball mechanism...1/4" hole.  In the long run you just need to put a finger of grease or a dollop of silicone in that hole.  No need to put in a plug.  Some of those other holes are blind holes, and if you have some that are not, you want to beware of putting in too long of a bolt.  Look into the schematic and see how long these bolts are supposed to be...do not go past that...you may be poking into places with turning gears.  

[Handy Don 12,451]

1 hour ago, stevasaurus said:

That is were you build your détente ball mechanism...1/4" hole.  In the long run you just need to put a finger of grease or a dollop of silicone in that hole.  No need to put in a plug.  Some of those other holes are blind holes, and if you have some that are not, you want to beware of putting in too long of a bolt.  Look into the schematic and see how long these bolts are supposed to be...do not go past that...you may be poking into places with turning gears.  

Excellent. Thank you.

I already planned for new bolts based on the bolt lengths in the IPL so good there. The dollop of oil-resistant silicone will be easy too.