C-125 modification

[Gregor 4,847]

I put electric steering on Casper, my 656, a while back. The goal for the 125 is to have electric assist power steering, using a winch. Here is what I have done.

 

Pic 1 is what the spool looks like, removed from a 12 volt electric winch, and disassembled.

It is a steel spool with a hole through the center for the shaft. On the right side is where the spline is from the motor/gearbox that turns the spool. There is a small hole in the spool with a set screw. This secures the cable to the spool.

 

Pic 2 is what I did to it. I did not want to cut the spool, so everything had to be split in half and put back together. The yellow in the pic is my clutch plate, or friction material, whatever you want to call it.

First I made a round 3'16" steel disc (red) and attached it to the spool with screws. Again, this had to split and put on in 2 halves. I made another disc (blue) and got a sprocket hub (green) and a sprocket (orange). Split all of them, put them on the spool, and welded them all together. They are free to spin on the spool.

 

When I put the electric steering on the 656, I used a cable running from the winch to the fan gear. Because of the placement, and interference with the hydraulic lift cylinder on the 125, I could use the existing fan gear so I sort-a made one.

I started with a 1" block, 2" x 2" and bored a 3/4" hole through it, then cut it in half. Then I drilled and tapped it and used 2 socket head cap screws to clamp it back together. I also drilled and tapped a 5/16 hole for a set screw in the bottom. I welded on a 1/2" X 1 1/2" X 3" upright bar. This proved to be too wide, and I had to grind (customize) it a bit. I then welded a 1/2" X 3/4" bar across the top of that and drilled and taped it for 10-24 screws. This fastens the chain to the "fan" gear. Oh yeah. I opted for roller chain rather than cable. Very good move. . 

 

I have a 1/4" thick frame mounted under the tractor for the winch. It pivots in the rear, and will slide up and down (if necessary) on two 3/8" threaded rods, and is held down by springs.

On the side of the frame rails I welded some what I will call chain guides. You might call them up-side side wood-ruff keys, but trust me, they are chain guides.

There are a few extra holes, and some spacers added  here and there, but you know those guys in engineering, always sending down a revision.

 

So now all the mechanicals are on the tractor, but none of the electrical components. I decided to try it out by just hooking up a battery. I don't have any limit switches yet, but really, what can it hurt? It's a clutch. It will just keep on spinning. So I hook up a battery. I am sad to say it's a dud.  While there is a noticeable difference in the amount of effort it takes to turn the wheels, it's not enough to make this a viable working, power steering unit. My friction material just doesn't have enough grab to it. For now, I put a set screw in the winch spool, and will add the electrical components, which in effect, will make it electric steering, but with no buttons to push. You will have to turn the steering wheel, right or left. I will say with the set screw in the spool, it turns fine, and it turns FAST !

 

I am going to see if I can order a new spool for my winch. I won't feel so bad about cutting one in half, if I have a spare. This may allow me to install a usable, working clutch mechanism. Maybe a magnetic clutch, or some type of pressure plate application.

 

On a side note. For those of you that work on tractors a lot, and don't have a lift table, or some way to get your tractor up in the air, I STRONGLY recommend it. You can't believe how nice it is to get off of that cold floor. Not have to crawl from side to side. Don't have to get up every time you need a different wrench or screwdriver. I can sit in my desk chair a wheel around from side to side or anywhere else I need to go. I wish I had done it 6 tractors ago !

[JoeM 7,874]

That is thinking out of the box! I like it.

I must ask some new cars have electric steering, wonder how that is done? might have to google 

[ebinmaine 68,889]

VERY interesting.

 

I'll be following to see where this goes. 

[Gregor 4,847]

My goal was to install electric assist power steering to the 125. I failed at that.  But I'm still thinking on it. I need to come up with a clutch system that I can put on the spool of the 12V winch, be it a magnetic clutch, or some type of pressure plate application. In order to do that I have to cut the spool in half. I have tried to contact the winch company to see about buying a second spool, so far, that has not worked out.

 

For now it is full on electric steering, but still using the steering wheel. You only have to turn the wheel slightly, but, if it makes you feel better, you can turn the whole way.

 

Here are some of the components.

The winch, which is mounted under the tractor. Unlike the steering on the 656, this drive is utilizing a roller chain, rather than a steel cable.

The relays are mounted directly behind the winch. I mounted 2, but only wired in 1. I decided I would test the relay manufacturers claim of these relays being able to handle 30 amps on each contact. We shall see. As it sits now, I have an extra relay. No sense wasting it, I have a plan.   I also need to find an adequate electrical plug to install to get rid of all the wire nuts. I may have to go with a 7 pin trailer hook up, plus a 4 flat trailer hook up. I have 9 wires to connect.

 

 

This is my homemade fan gear of sorts.  The steel blocks you see welded on are no longer used. They were originally used to activate the limit switches, which you can see, they are blue. What can I say? Engineering sent down another revision. I had this fan gear clamped on with a 5/16 set screw to hold it, but that proved insufficient. I ended up have to weld it to the shaft. Didn't want to do that, but I did. The small metal tabs you see attached with machine screws to the chain are now used to activate the limit switches. The roller chain is attached to the fan gear with 3 machine screws

 

This is whats under the dash. These collars are on the steering shaft. The one with the 5/16 bolt sticking out is free to turn on the shaft. It is held snug by a compression spring, also on the shaft. When you turn the steering wheel the collar with the bolt spins right or left, but only till the stop hit. You can't see the stops, they are behind the collar with the bolt. The bolt moves left and right, contacting the micro switches, energizing the winch either right or left, until the limit switches stop it. This area may need a little revision. As you can see in the pic, there is not a lot of "neutral" area. I think I may need to increase that "neutral" area. As  it sits now, it's a tad touchy. Maybe I just nee to get use to it.

 

Here is a short video. I don't know why, but it wants to turn right faster than left. I have checked the voltage going to the winch, and it's the same in both directions. I have not taken this out on the street yet, I was hoping it would warm up a bit more. Have I mentioned I hate cold?

 

If anyone has a suggestion for a clutch, I am open to all ideas. I believe I could make another spool but for the spline that actually drives the spool form the gear motor. I'd hate having to buy another winch, just to get a second spool.

 

[kpinnc 12,813]

On 3/14/2022 at 5:02 PM, Gregor said:

wish I had done it 6 tractors ago !

 

Makes a real difference in your back and your knees too!

 

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

For now it is full on electric steering,

 

Very interesting, and very nice fab work! 

[Gregor 4,847]

So I took to the street, and I mean the WHOLE street ! As I mentioned earlier, I thought the neutral area in the steering was going to prove to be too small, and it was. It's a good thing my street is traveled very little, and no one parks on it, as I needed the whole thing. Once you get this thing rolling, it steers easier of course, and it steers FAST !     FREAKY FAST !   TOO FAST !  If I can, I need to find a way to slow it down. I have a motor controller, to control voltage to a DC motor, but it won't handle anything this size. I was all over the place. When I got back to the garage I sent a memo to engineering. DUH, it's Saturday. No one there. I was on my own. I changed a few things and increased the neutral area dramatically. With the revisions I made, I can no longer turn the steering wheel all the way. Only as far as the stops will allow. Back to the street. It's still freaky fast, but a bit easier to control. With the tractor running, I can't hear the winch. All I can go by is what the wheels are doing. I made it back to my driveway, and everything quit. I broke a micro switch. That doesn't surprise me at all. These tiny little micro switches are handy, but not very stout. I have some larger ones on order, but they have not come in yet.

 

Tomorrow is another day.

[ebinmaine 68,889]

VERY interesting work G. 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

Eric. I'm sure many consider a project like this a waste of time, effort and money, but I really enjoy this type of thing, so how can hat be a waste.

 

These new micro switches are probably over-kill, but I had them on hand, and I can assure you they won't break.

 

[ebinmaine 68,889]

5 hours ago, Gregor said:

many consider a project like this a waste of time, effort and money, but I really enjoy this type of thing

THAT, in and of itself, clearly and inarguably dictates that it is NOT a waste of any resource. 

 

It's interesting to see what you're doing. .... But also excellent to see you really enjoying the process. 

 

[Skipper 1,789]

Fully agree. If it makes you fuzzy, go for it. A simpler approach, but less "fuzzy"   would have been to find a stand alone e-servo kit. Those things are pretty much plug and play. 

[Gregor 4,847]

With the new micro switches, I am able to adjust the "neutral" area as much as I like, which helps a lot, but the steering is still much too fast. Maybe with a little practice I could get use to it.

 

I took the snow blowers off of my 656, (Casper). They were not real practical anyway, with one dumping snow in front of the other. When I get a chance to sneak into Maine on the back roads, and swipe that 36" snowblower from Eric,  I'll be in business. For now I am going to remove the lift winch, take it apart, and cut the drum in half, so I can add a clutch. I have a design in mind for a clutch, but who knows if it will work or not. Won't know until I try.

I called Champion Winch, and they are sending a new drum and clutch assembly free of charge.

[ebinmaine 68,889]

17 minutes ago, Gregor said:

When I get a chance to sneak into Maine on the back roads, and swipe that 36" snowblower from Eric,  I'll be in business

It's a 38. 

And seriously. 

You come get it...

I'd LOVE to see what you did with it.   

[Gregor 4,847]

These are the components to my new drive and clutch system. Top left is part of the winch spool after being sliced in two. To the right of that is my clutch facing. It will get glued and screwed to the spool.

The clutch facing is actually material from a bowling lane. At the end of the lane a 2 wooden structures on either side of the lane. They are called kickbacks. This is what the pins and ball bounce off of after impact. They are made of hard maple. While maple is a relatively hard wood, it wouldn't last long on it's own. They are covered with plates, that are made of a phenolic material. I can't tell you much about it, except it's hard. Very, very hard. I machined these pieces the same way as the steel. With my saw-zall and side grinder. As I said, it is HARD !To the right of that is the drive pin from the winch. If it weren't for that spin on the end, I believe I could make my own spool, but I have no way of machining that. under the spool is a 3/16 by 3 1/2 steel plate. I guess you would call it the pressure plate. It has 8 bolts going through it to adjust pressure between the two phenloic plates. Below that is the other half of the spool, the chain sprocket, and sprocket hub.

Everything is at the weld shop right now to get welded all together. I have no way to weld the aluminum spool back together.

Once I have it back on the tractor, I believe I know what's bound to happen. We shall see.

[Gregor 4,847]

 

 

On 3/23/2022 at 5:33 AM, Gregor said:

I believe I know what's bound to happen. We shall see.

And it did.   While trying to adjust enough pressure on the pressure plate, I split the aluminum spool right at the weld. I thought this was likely to happen. As you can see, the welder didn't get much penetration with his weld. In his defense, I probably could not have split the spool in a worse spot. He really could not get at it well. I figure I would either break the weld, or bust the end right off the end of the spool.

BUT ! On the up-side, I have another winch, with a spool, and this spool is steel. I can weld it myself. Back to fab work.

[Gregor 4,847]

Just got back from a test run around the block. Did I achieve electric assist power steering?  Yes, I believe I did. You still drive the tractor like any conventional tractor, it's just easier. It's not the one finger power steering I was hoping for, but there is a very noticeable difference. You turn a little, the tractor turns a little. You turn a lot, the tractor turns a lot. It's not the the full on electric steering, and hard to control. It's noticeable with the tractor is sitting still, but much more so when moving. You can still pull the spool release on the winch, and drive like any tractor.

So.........is this a viable, worth while modification? Don 't know, don't care. Just wanted to see if I could do it. Obviously you cannot attach a mower deck underneath with that winch there. Snow plow?  I don't know. I am not familiar with how they go on.

The cost.

 

Winch.................$110

Sprocket.............$8

Sprocket hub......$12

Chain..................$10

Steel...................$20

Switches.............$20

Wiring-Misc.........$30

Band Aids...........$4

Time...........A good time. Really good time.

 

Now I have nothing to do again.

[ebinmaine 68,889]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Time...........A good time. Really good time.

Excellent work getting that to function (mostly) as you were looking for. 

 

It's the fun and adventure of things like that which make it all worthwhile to me.