engine replacement/retrofit

[Michael Polecat 9]

I have a 1984 312-8 that I am replacing the original Kohler K301 engine with a 15 hp Predator,,,problem is the Predator has a 1" output shaft and the original Kohler had a 1 1/8" shaft.....

Hence, the clutch bearing race will not fit. ....anyone know a work-around for this?

[8ntruck 7,391]

to the forum.  There might be sleeves available to slide over the Predator shaft to adapt to the 1 1/8" Wheel Horse pulley and clutch parts.

 

Many here on the forum have made similar swaps.  Someone will be along soon with more details and advice.

[pfrederi 18,334]

Welcome  Many WH 8 hp tractors had one inch crankshafts.  They used the normal manual PTO but had a special bearing race WH#6935 in the PTO Check with AtoZ tractor in  the vendor section here.

 

 

Just Checked he has 7 in stock....

Edited March 8, 2022 by pfrederi

[clueless 3,111]

[WHX?? 50,768]

 

Something even easier.....

 

HERE

[Michael Polecat 9]

7 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

 

Something even easier.....

 

HERE

SWEET!   That is VERY HELPFUL!       Thanks a BUNCH!

[WHX?? 50,768]

Your 

One thing I did notice tho is that comes on the slow boat  from China so you may want to hunt for one in the States. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by WHX??

[pacer 3,175]

@WHX?? brings up a valid point .... but there are dozens of those shown on the bay, for instance as typical of the bay anymore, on the page this one is shown drop down the page and MANY more are shown and no doubt there will be one in there shipped from the states.

[Michael Polecat 9]

As I get into this project I have hit a few more snags....Removal of the bearing race and drive pulley is not likely (very rusty) and the drive pulley has a chunk broke out of the backside.

I figure it would be best to just replace both with new,...the bearing race is available from the manufacturer, but I haven't been able to find the pulley...or the specs on it..

Anyone know the proper pulley this would need?

[Michael Polecat 9]

45 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

Your 

One thing I did notice tho is that comes on the slow boat  from China so you may want to hunt for one in the States. 

I have one on the way...ETA   Tues. 3/15....

Thanks!

[Achto 28,794]

[Thor27 832]

Will the predator survive the side load or are you doing an electric pto?

[ri702bill 8,990]

I just purchased a 3/4 to 1 inch sleeve spacer made in the "Offshore Facility" or a yank start 502 I am assembling - be prepared to clean up the ID and OD to give a good fit and file if necessary (it was) the fit of both steps on the key and the fit into the sleeve slot. Still cheaper than the material and my time to make one ....

I also added 2 more setscrews 120 degrees from the original - tapped thru the pulley and clearanced to go thru the sleeve - once all together I plan to "dimple" the crank where the new screws contact so they will not raise a burr.

Bill

[WHX?? 50,768]

30 minutes ago, Thor27 said:

Will the predator survive the side load 

I think the jury's still out but from what guys are reporting no problems thus far. 

14 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

tapped thru the pulley and clearanced to go thru the sleeve - once all together I plan to "dimple" the crank where the new screws contact so they will not raise a burr.

Really good plan Bill. 

 

1 hour ago, Michael Polecat said:

I figure it would be best to just replace both with new,...the bearing race is available from the manufacturer, but I haven't been able to find the pulley.

Probably best off to to try and source with some of the vendors or fellas here.  Not real familiar with a 312-8 Polecat but guessing you need the pully with the machined outer surface and bolt pattern for the clutch plate. That pulley will have to come off a parts machine. The bearing race I might or others here have. A pic of what you need would help here. 

Edited March 8, 2022 by WHX??

[kpinnc 13,749]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Will the predator survive the side load 

 

Google your engine for the service manual and see what it has for bearings. Some Preds have ball bearing supported cranks and some don't.

 

Either way, nearly all engines are designed for side loads. Axial loads are another thing- and WH PTOs create a big axial load. If your engine has ball bearings, you should be fine. If not, as has been said the jury is out. Onans for all thier power do not have bearings, nor do any Kohler twins. They still run for years.

[pfrederi 18,334]

2 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

Google your engine for the service manual and see what it has for bearings. Some Preds have ball bearing supported cranks and some don't.

 

Either way, nearly all engines are designed for side loads. Axial loads are another thing- and WH PTOs create a big axial load. If your engine has ball bearings, you should be fine. If not, as has been said the jury is out. Onans for all thier power do not have bearings, nor do any Kohler twins. They still run for years.

  Not true... WH specified a thrust bearing in the KT-17s and M-18 they used.  Very few other users paid the extra....

[pfrederi 18,334]

[kpinnc 13,749]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Not true... WH specified a thrust bearing in the KT-17s and M-18 they used.  Very few other users paid the extra....

 

Well I learned something new. I never knew the Kohler twins had them.

[Handy Don 13,340]

20 hours ago, kpinnc said:

Onans for all thier power do not have bearings, nor do any Kohler twins. They still run for years.

Well I learned something as well. Always thought Onan's did have ball or roller bearings.

Jumped over to the P220 IPL and grabbed this. Rear bearing is #5. Note the undersize options!

   

          

[pfrederi 18,334]

The thrust needle bearing on the Kohlers looks more substantial than the #4 thrust washer in the  Onan

[Handy Don 13,340]

11 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

The thrust needle bearing on the Kohlers looks more substantial than the #4 thrust washer in the  Onan

#4 is only a spacer shim for eliminating crankshaft sideways movement -- they come in several thicknesses to be added as needed. The thrust washer is #6.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Handy Don

[lynnmor 7,568]

3 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

The thrust needle bearing on the Kohlers looks more substantial than the #4 thrust washer in the  Onan

Actually a plain thrust washer type of bearing can handle a lot of load.  Keep in mind that the needles have only a tiny line of contact at each one, and the thrust washer has full contact.

[kpinnc 13,749]

27 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Always thought Onan's did have ball or roller bearings.

 

Me too, until I took mine apart. I guess the full pressure oil is the saving grace for the crank bearings. My P218 crank was still very smooth and quite snug in the bearings at 800 hours. 

 

7 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Actually a plain thrust washer type of bearing can handle a lot of load. 

 

I'm a little confused. Thrust washers and thrust bearings are not the same thing. My Onan has no thrust bearings.

[lynnmor 7,568]

Just now, kpinnc said:

 

I'm a little confused. Thrust washers and thrust bearings are not the same thing. My Onan has no thrust bearings.

 

Definition of a bearing:

a part of a machine that bears friction, especially between a rotating part and its housing