Older engines and the right oil

[RonnieB2nd 33]

Do any of you run high zinc motor oil in your older tractors? I do Just wondering if anyone else does

[pfrederi 17,741]

Just change it  frequently...... unless you are using it in commercial use  the amount of ZDDP will probably only affect your children who inherit it....

[953 nut 55,298]

You wouldn't use a high ZDDP in a modern gasoline engine in a car or truck because it could screw-up the catalytic converter but it good for old engines. Motor oils made for diesel engines have zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP) in them as an anti-wear ingredient. I buy the 30 weight diesel motor oil.

 

[lynnmor 7,307]

Older tractors were built in a time that people had common sense and motor oils had zinc.  If you can find gasoline without ethanol, diesel fuel with little soybeans and oil with ZDDP, you can set the clock back to the days of common sense.

[Mustang67ford 234]

I do.  I prefer rotella SAE.

[ri702bill 8,327]

Yup Rotella 30 weight in the summer, 10-30 Rotella for cold weather use. 

Bill

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

13 hours ago, 953 nut said:

I buy the 30 weight diesel motor oil.

Thanks, I was wondering about that stuff.  It was the only Rotella in stock at MalWart the last time I was in there.

[ri702bill 8,327]

Rotella does contain some ZDDP - helpful on older gas engines with flat tappet cams like Kohlers.

[JoeM 7,874]

And if you got deep pockets, race oils use those additives too. 

The diesel stuff is the best buy. Sometime on sale at tractor supply.

[peter lena 8,634]

@RonnieB2nd   agree with the higher rate zinc  for older engine types , been using , RISLONE ZINC , additive , for quite a while now , with running ease seen in all functions. get mine on amazon with free shipping, read the bottle specs for amount , usually  2 oz per qt . also noticed the added liquid coal oil look at hot drainage time . use it in all my small engines , if you just add the bottle spec  to  your oil change , you will be fine , regularly use rotella oil #30 , have had very good experience with it  , https://www.amazon.com/Rislone-4405-Supplement-Concentrate-Treatment/dp/B0075559UY?th=1   go to back of bottle specs , picture , pete

[wh5208speed 645]

Here are some high zinc oils. As many here have mentioned, the Shell Rotella SAE 30 is a great value ($15-17/ gallon @ Rural King & Wal-Mart).

 

Both Valvoline VR-1 SAE 30 & Kohler’s SAE 30 have high zinc as well.
 

Lately, I have been running Rotella T-6 (Full Synthetic) 15w-40 diesel in all of my air cooled engines. 15W-40 is listed in the Onan’s manual as an option….but not listed in the Wheel Horse manual for the 520H. This oil has been a little difficult to find due to covid….if you can find it, both Wal-Mart & Rural King sell it for around $22/gal.

 

There are a lot of lawn care companies that run Rotella and have a lot of hours on their air-cooled engines.

 

Most important thing about oil is to keep the level full & change it on time.

 

Bobistheoilguy has a lot of great info on it, if you want to geek out on oil.

 

The one oil I would avoid is if the API service label says SN or SP….those oils are the latest standard that the government set, which has caused oil companies to drop the levels of zinc & phosphorus. I can’t remember which brand it was, but there was some conventional Valvoline SAE 30 or Pennzoil SAE 30 that had the SN label about a month ago.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by wh5208speed

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

13 hours ago, peter lena said:

read the bottle specs for amount

 

And keep in mind the fact that the amount stated on the bottle is for SN or SP oil formulations!

 

13 hours ago, peter lena said:

usually  2 oz per qt

 

Is too much to add to Rotella T1 30W given that it already has more zinc and phosphorous than typical SN or SP oils.

 

Download the data sheets from Shell and do the math if you don't believe me.  

 

ONE oz per qt is enough ZDDP to get one to the highest amount that should be in your oil. (typically approximately 1200-1400 ppm)

 

Remember too that TOO MUCH is BAD.  The oil can become acidic and this is as bad or worse than no ZDDP at all!  Probably not an issue if you change every 25 hours though. This is debatable...

 

 

 

[lynnmor 7,307]

I now use the Kohler oil and there is no worry about the correct additive amounts.  Prices vary so search around, it is currently $5.99 at Rural King.

  

[David414 289]

I have a 1989, 414-8 with a 14hp Kohler, original owner, and used whatever Napa or national brand oil on sale, 30w oil for the summer, and 10w - 30w for the winter for over 30 plus years with no problems at all. Engine does not smoke, leak, drip, surge, or hesitate; starts immediately.  Engine is all original except for spark plug, air filter and exhaust with over 1,420 hours of some very hard usage with no problems. Never adjusted the valves, never touched the carburetor. Sometimes, I think certain topics are over analyzed. Just my 2 cents.

[lynnmor 7,307]

38 minutes ago, David414 said:

I have a 1989, 414-8 with a 14hp Kohler, original owner, and used whatever Napa or national brand oil on sale, 30w oil for the summer, and 10w - 30w for the winter for over 30 plus years with no problems at all. Engine does not smoke, leak, drip, surge, or hesitate; starts immediately.  Engine is all original except for spark plug, air filter and exhaust with over 1,420 hours of some very hard usage with no problems. Never adjusted the valves, never touched the carburetor. Sometimes, I think certain topics are over analyzed. Just my 2 cents.

30 years ago there was anti-wear ZDDP in the oil, we are discussing recent developments.  Lack of maintenance is for disposable tractors.

[David414 289]

48 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

30 years ago there was anti-wear ZDDP in the oil, we are discussing recent developments.  Lack of maintenance is for disposable tractors.

What time frame is recent developments? 5 years, 8 years,??

[lynnmor 7,307]

14 minutes ago, David414 said:

What time frame is recent developments? 5 years, 8 years,??

The API SN oils hit the shelves in 2010, the reduction in ZDDP continues and effects more brands and grades all the time.  I choose to sidestep the issue and leave the inferior products to be defended by others.

[David414 289]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

The API SN oils hit the shelves in 2010, the reduction in ZDDP continues and effects more brands and grades all the time.  I choose to sidestep the issue and leave the inferior products to be defended by others.

Not being difficult but please help me understand this concept of the reduction in ZDDP in oil. If I am purchasing the cheapest oil since 2010 when the SN oils came to market, then for over the past 12 years, I am assuming that based on your research that each brand had lower or no existence of ZDDP in their oil. If this is a true statement, I have not seen any signs of engine deterioration or degradation in performance or power. In addition, there is no evidence of smoking, leaking, or any other perceptible reduction of engine performance. So, what or when does this ZDDP affect the engine? How can you tell if the reduction in ZDDP is really affecting your engine, if it still performs the same as it has over the last 30 years? Thanks.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 minutes ago, David414 said:

last 30 years

 

Valid question!  In support of your conjecture:

 

Anecdotally I will answer that I carry a talisman that prevents alien robots from stealing my luggage.

 

I know that it works because it hasn't happened!

 

I sometimes wonder why I even bother to maintain my machines at all knowing full well they will probably outlive me and/or my ability to operate them, and will likely be scrapped upon my demise.

 

Yeah, sometimes I have these morbid thoughts!

[Handy Don 12,235]

Just now, Jeff-C175 said:

Yeah, sometimes I have these morbid thoughts!

That thought has entered my mind lately as well. Hmmm.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

10 minutes ago, David414 said:

not seen any signs

 

I suppose in order to prove or disprove the efficacy of ZDDP one would have to run a whole bunch of identical engines under identical conditions nd take periodic wear measurements.

 

I guess we just need faith!

[pfrederi 17,741]

Open your engine and look at the tappets and cam lobes...That is what the ZDDP is supposed to protect.  None of the engines I have looked in to had tappets/cam lobes in bad shape.  Unless you are using your engine a lot (commercial service) the extra wear probably will not be noticeable for many years and at 72 I don't care....

Edited March 6, 2022 by pfrederi

[lynnmor 7,307]

2 hours ago, David414 said:

Not being difficult but please help me understand this concept of the reduction in ZDDP in oil. If I am purchasing the cheapest oil since 2010 when the SN oils came to market, then for over the past 12 years, I am assuming that based on your research that each brand had lower or no existence of ZDDP in their oil. If this is a true statement, I have not seen any signs of engine deterioration or degradation in performance or power. In addition, there is no evidence of smoking, leaking, or any other perceptible reduction of engine performance. So, what or when does this ZDDP affect the engine? How can you tell if the reduction in ZDDP is really affecting your engine, if it still performs the same as it has over the last 30 years? Thanks.

 

ZDDP is an anti-wear ingredient added to motor oils for three quarters of century.  Aircraft engines needed the protection and that drove the use in all engines.  The amount added has little to do with the price paid.  It was not meant solely for protection of flat tappets, it has benefits for all wear surfaces.  While the amount of wear can be discussed but the bottom line is that an engine is better protected and there is no reason to use a product with less anti-wear properties.  If you understand that this nonsense has been driven by environmental Nazis, saying that the tiny amount of ZDDP in the tiny amount of oil consumed coated the catalyst with a tiny amount of material causing a tiny amount of more pollution.

[953 nut 55,298]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:35 PM, 953 nut said:

9 hours ago, David414 said:

please help me understand this concept of the reduction in ZDDP in oil.

You wouldn't use a high ZDDP in a modern gasoline engine in a car or truck because it could screw-up the catalytic converter

 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,653]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:12 AM, JoeM said:

The diesel stuff is the best buy.

That would not surprise me.