Pole Barn

[sergeant 291]

17 hours ago, kwalshy said:

I've always been a fan of dumb waiters! 

Here is something I still Might Put In My Barn  https://www.aladdinstoragelift.com/product/aladdin-storage-lift-asl-500/?kw=aladdin attic lift&cpn=17437160633&device=c&utm_term=aladdin attic lift&utm_campaign=2022.StorageLift.Purchase&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=9998658981&hsa_cam=17437160633&hsa_grp=138188035340&hsa_ad=602401710373&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=kwd-928323684171&hsa_kw=aladdin attic lift&hsa_mt=b&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8uOWBhDXARIsAOxKJ2GPhKKnKvxaskFc0m7YemKHDOXhW0QNoqnaR-I_aNxiK8GG3UiFKs8aAgZCEALw_wcB or This https://theatticlift.com/ I have a full second story  I did put outside Stairs In  But I do store some mowing decks for Garden tractors up there.  I also Have this https://rainbowatticstair.com/all-products/f-series/ for winter access to  the 2nd story

[ebinmaine 67,628]

I've seen designs for similar rectangular shaped lifts that were home built using an ATV winch. 

[sergeant 291]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I've seen designs for similar rectangular shaped lifts that were home built using an ATV winch. 

 A friend had  a client who put an Aladdin one In His Garage. I have doors In the front of the Barn On the second story was Thinking of running a steel Beam Out the front and just getting a winch  But thought 4 Points would be better than one to lift stuff to the second story also considered this  https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-5440/Stackers-and-Positioners/Semi-Electric-Straddle-Stacker-137-Lift  But when It lowers won't clear the doorway In the first floor of the barn also  considered this https://www.crown.com/en-us/forklifts/stackers/sh-shr-shc-heavy-duty-reach-stacker.html as Long as I Can buy a used One New $16,000 Plus It's just not worth it

Edited July 21, 2022 by sergeant

[kwalshy 229]

18 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

You putting in some kind of lift to the upstairs that goes in through a window or something?

 

Like a hayloft lift or whatever? 

No, I will be only building stairs up to the attic.  

[ebinmaine 67,628]

3 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

No, I will be only building stairs up to the attic.  

That's what we are doing for now as well. Once the framer is done and codes are satisfied then we might look into putting some sort of a lift mechanism at the back of the building. Inside or outside we don't know yet.

Really not that big of a deal to us at this point because everything that could possibly be going upstairs in the near future we can move by hand. 

[sergeant 291]

My case I want to Be able to store some Tractor attachment that are not exactly a 1 Person Lift up stairs  for off season storage  It's all Under 300 lbs  But over 150 lbs  and all My Helpers (Children) are spread across the country . The only downside of your Kids growing up!  The helpers go away/ Most Of my friends around me are Senior citizens Now  they Have 10 to 15 years On Me  I am usually the one they call to help them do the Heavy Lifting  Yet all there Kids are close by

[kwalshy 229]

On 7/20/2022 at 11:39 AM, Handy Don said:

Looking good. As a Boy Scout in the 60's I spent lots of great time at Camp Achahela in Blakeslee!

That camp is in a beautiful part of the area & right on top of the Lehigh River.  I never had the chance to camp there as a Scout.

[kwalshy 229]

Any recommendations for a radiant floor, pex tubing layout, design software or service?  Free would be very nice, but if it’s an affordable and well thought out design tool, I’m willing to pay for the service.  Thanks

[kwalshy 229]

For anyone interested, I downloaded a free trial version of LoopCAD to help me design the tubing layout circuits for a radiant system.  I watched the tutorial videos and it helped, software is rather easy to use.  After some adjustments on circuit settings I was able to design a system that will have comparable flow & pressure in each circuit, should allow me to have only 1 pump for the entire system.

 

On a separate note:  Anyone have any luck with ways to reduce local tax assessment office's opinion on property value now that they've seen my pole barn?

[ebinmaine 67,628]

3 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

separate note:  Anyone have any luck with ways to reduce local tax assessment office's opinion on property value now that they've seen my pole barn?

 

Most of the time the law is the law and the assessment numbers are arrived at by multiplying a set of fixed figures from a list or table that is based on your square footage.

 

There are some areas however that have differences in those figures.

A barn for animals might be different from a storage building or a garage for instance.

 

It's also possible that commercial usage, residential, farm/agriculture may have different cost bases to them.  

 

 

[lynnmor 7,308]

You might want to get the final inspection before adding things like concrete, electrical and partitions.

[WHX?? 48,828]

Crap @kwalshy wished I woulda saw post 158. I have all the software to do it professionally. The diy doesn't need it tho unless your anal retentive or an engineer that has way too much schooling and no time in the trench. 

Thirty years ago I did many radiant panels off the seat of my pants. Still out ther and working. 

Big thing with any radiant is the heat source. Old skool doesn’t work ... new skool does. 

One day figured out the seat of my pants was getting crusty and time go to skool and get certified and all that BS. Turned out I skooled them with experience and no nonsense approaches.. 

[kwalshy 229]

15 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Crap @kwalshy wished I woulda saw post 158. I have all the software to do it professionally. The diy doesn't need it tho unless your anal retentive or an engineer that has way too much schooling and no time in the trench. 

Thirty years ago I did many radiant panels off the seat of my pants. Still out ther and working. 

Big thing with any radiant is the heat source. Old skool doesn’t work ... new skool does. 

One day figured out the seat of my pants was getting crusty and time go to skool and get certified and all that BS. Turned out I skooled them with experience and no nonsense approaches.. 

In full transparency I am an engineer!  But I have decades of time in the trenches as a process & automation engineer in manufacturing.  And for the most part, I'm a DIY all day long.  I strictly wanted to use the software to show me options for how the circuits could be ran b/c I have some areas I don't want any PEX in my concrete slab.   I figured the software would save me time sketching it out by hand on graph paper.  My goal is to use 1 pump and 1 zone to cover all circuits, no interest in multiple pumps & multiple zones....Keep It Simple Stupid.  My plan is to use a propane fired condensing tankless water heater for my heat source.  

[Handy Don 12,237]

7 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

software would save me time sketching it out by hand on graph paper

Amen to that (assuming it doesn’t take too long to learn the software) 

[WHX?? 48,828]

I've done so many infloor jobs throughout my career as a HVAC contractor this stuff came 2nd nature.

It got to the point where customers were not paying me for time or materials but experience in a multitude of applications...well the proper state licensing didn't hurt! 

 

For most applications like this only a couple  things you need to know. 1/2 pex 12" on centers. 250-300 ft loops max. ALWAYS have a pressure test before and during pouring!!!

Multiply the square footage you want to cover X 1.12. That will tell you how much tubing you will need. Divide that by 250 and that will tell you how many loops you will have. 

 

I never did drawings or used  software unless it was a very complicated layout with a gazillion zones or required by code...mainly commercial. 

Advice is take lots of pics of the final lay out after staple down incase you need to fasten to floor. Not a huge concern as there is a nifty way to find the tubes after the pour. Just a ton of other tips that come to mind that I learned throughout the years that we learned.  

8 hours ago, kwalshy said:

Keep It Simple Stupid.

Absolutely unless you got the coin to have a pro design & install it. Lots of fairly simple piping to heat source layouts on the net to coach one. Be careful tho as many run outside of the KISS principle.

8 hours ago, kwalshy said:

propane fired condensing tankless water heater for my heat source.  

Excellent choice although for a shop I might consider a non-condenser. A problem with condensers is getting rid of condensate with no freeze proof drains or sanitary. I have been known to utilize french drains but 

against most codes unless nobody's lookin and pending soil conditions. Cost to run savings between the two is cutting pennies in half. PVC versus ss venting costs is a consideration. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by WHX??

[WHX?? 48,828]

8 hours ago, kwalshy said:

In full transparency I am an engineer!

Whoops just caught that guy... no disrespect! Does sound like you might be a little out of your trade tho.  

[kwalshy 229]

21 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Amen to that (assuming it doesn’t take too long to learn the software) 

Software was rather simple to use, but then again I was only using a fraction of it's functionality.

[kwalshy 229]

13 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Whoops just caught that guy... no disrespect! Does sound like you might be a little out of your trade tho.  

None taken here!   I did the sit at a desk all day long engineering design in my early 20s and I hated every minute of it.  I couldn't wait to get out into a factory/manufacturing/production environment.  And besides, I was told about ~30 years ago that chemical engineers are just over paid plumbers!  

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

13 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

 I did the sit at a desk all day long engineering design in my early 20s and I hated every minute of it.

I hear that.         Back in the day our model hydro turbines were made from a solid bronze casting with finish, then hand ground and filed to templates.

The surface shape accuracy was +-  0.020" at best .

   We knew we had to do better so I designed a process to manufacture a model turbine using individual buckets that could be 100% machined then bolted together.

I spent months purchasing a White Sundstrand 5 axis Omni Mill, learning the maintenance, installation, and programing.   Got it all set up and machined a couple test parts.  

Worked great, we now had all surfaces ball end milled to +- 0.002".      I really enjoyed the year I spent developing this process.

Then, I spent a month sitting in front of the screen programing the first turbine . 

 It was a success, but I told my manager..."hire a programmer, I will never sit in one spot for a month again".

[rjg854 11,387]

5 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I will never sit in one spot for a month again".

I went to college to become an accountant.  After a year of suit and tie, sitting at a desk, I left college, went home and picked up a hammer. Was never happier, always on the move, always something different.  Building custom homes, taught me so much more than sitting behind a desk pushing paper.  Working for my boss I got to learn about all the trades, which helped so much through the years.  I'm really surprised that more young people don't get into at least one of the trades.

[Handy Don 12,237]

16 hours ago, WHX?? said:

A problem with condensers is getting rid of condensate with no freeze proof drains or sanitary.

We use a condensing, ultra high efficiency “natural” gas water heater and I was quite surprised at the amount of condensate--about a gallon per hour for the 100k BTU unit. 

[kwalshy 229]

25 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

We use a condensing, ultra high efficiency “natural” gas water heater and I was quite surprised at the amount of condensate--about a gallon per hour for the 100k BTU unit. 

 

Thanks for the feedback on the amount of condensate you're experiencing. 

 

 

[kwalshy 229]

17 hours ago, WHX?? said:

Excellent choice although for a shop I might consider a non-condenser. A problem with condensers is getting rid of condensate with no freeze proof drains or sanitary. I have been known to utilize french drains but 

against most codes unless nobody's lookin and pending soil conditions. Cost to run savings between the two is cutting pennies in half. PVC versus ss venting costs is a consideration. 

I have a non-condensing hot water heater for the house with concentric PVC intake/exhaust that has been issue free for years.  After reading your feedback & @Handy Don I should probably do the same for this application.  

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

3 hours ago, rjg854 said:

I'm really surprised that more young people don't get into at least one of the trades.

IMO Randy  this is one of the biggest problems this country is facing.  

When I started in heavy industry back in the '60s  the union contracts dictated  one apprentice  must be employed for every five journeyman machinist, welder, boilermaker, and electricion.

These were 5-7 year long apprenticeship programs.

These programs disappeared in the '80s.

 

[kwalshy 229]

Took some days off from work to 'Get R Done'.  some pics below