Pole Barn

[ebinmaine 67,421]

3 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Yep, gutters and down spouting piped into the approved seepage pit.

To some extent I understand the logic of that but it sounds like a code put together by an engineer who's never actually tried to clean or maintain a gutter. Much less, watch the snow come down off a roof or form an ice jam because of that very gutter.

 

[WHX?? 48,814]

Speaking of drainage any plans for floor drains @kwalshy ? 

Code here in a garage or shop they have to piped out and the end be open to sight or a catch basin.  You wouldn't  believe the clowns that just drop their engine oil to them. 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

It's actually things like the above mentioned that is the reason we are looking at doing a pole barn with no apartment instead of a regular garage with foundation. The codes are very very different for an unoccupied building.

 

For a long time we were considering garage below, apartment up top.

 

Our most recent iteration is to move all of the basement workshop and all of the outdoor workshop into one building. Then put the apartment in the basement of the house where everything already exists.

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,534]

That makes good sense and cents… way less expensive… 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

2 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

That makes good sense and cents… way less expensive… 

Well played there sir. 

 

The difference is incredible. 

[Ed Kennell 38,133]

6 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

move all of the basement workshop

Yeah,  work shops in the living quarters is kinda scary.     I even question the safety of a heated shop when working on old tractors with rotting fuel systems and grease covered engines.

My pole barn is not heated, but  stillI have a main power disconnect at the door and only power up when I am in the building.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,534]

 

Same approach here with my detached garage…

 

Space heater when I need it…

 

Safe and works…

 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

16 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

question the safety of a heated shop when working on old tractors with rotting fuel systems and grease covered engines

I believe you are correct to question that.

 

We have a wood stove in our basement as you all are well aware.

I really don't have any concern with grease, oil, diesel. Gasoline however does freak me out some.

We do all we can to avoid having gasoline in the basement at all whenever possible.

 

 

One thing I've gotten accustomed to about the basement workshop that I will miss is the simple convenience of being able to just walk down the stairs and all your stuff is already all laid out and the place is warm ish.

 

15 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Space heater when I need it

That's the route I've gone in the outdoor workshop of course.

Whatever new building we put up is not likely to have heat except for electric heaters and wood stoves up and down stairs.

Stoves would not be used when gasoline is involved. I'd stick to Electric on those days.

[JimSraj 429]

That’s where that in floor radiant would be nice if the shop is used enough and IF you can afford it. 

[kwalshy 229]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

To some extent I understand the logic of that but it sounds like a code put together by an engineer who's never actually tried to clean or maintain a gutter. Much less, watch the snow come down off a roof or form an ice jam because of that very gutter.

 

Good one!  I can laugh at that because I'm an engineer and I've encountered too many to count that are so book smart they can't change the oil on their car. 

 

[kwalshy 229]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

Speaking of drainage any plans for floor drains @kwalshy ? 

Code here in a garage or shop they have to piped out and the end be open to sight or a catch basin.  You wouldn't  believe the clowns that just drop their engine oil to them. 

 Yes, I would like a floor drain.  The purpose will primarily be for washing the tractor or truck and the floor after butchering a deer.  I will have a few conduits installed so I can run power, water into the barn at a later date on my own.   

 

I'm environmentally conscious and a steward of the land, so no funny business going on with the floor drain.  Plus my land is adjacent to federal wetland and I don't need my well water getting contaminated either.

[WHX?? 48,814]

19 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

a steward of the land,

That's what we like to hear....good man! 

[kwalshy 229]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

I built a very large pole style building with a friend and he had all the sidewalls spray foamed and it was the best thing since sliced bread.  If I was to build a heated building I would certainly price it out as an alternative. No vapor barrier was used but house wrap was applied just under the steel. mainly in case any siding steel got damaged and needed to come off. One thing nice about steel panels & trim they can be easily replaced they get damaged. 

Anyway it sealed the building up very nicely and made it very energy friendly. The other nice thing about it was very mouse proof with no voids in the wall for mice to nest. I have a ton of pics I'll have to dig out.

 

 

 

@WHX?? 

I would assume closed cell spray foam was used?  I am hoping this spray foam insulation would be a cheaper than having the builder install batt on the walls & cover the entire wall with steel panels.  I could save a few bucks by installing plywood or peg board where I want it on my own.    If I were to do spray foam on the walls I'm not sure what I'd do about the roof, have the roof sprayed too OR do a ceiling with panels attached to the rafters & have blown-in insulation?

[WHX?? 48,814]

Yes it was closed cell ... I'll get you some pics later. I doubt if it's any cheaper but it sure is better. I guess it depends if there guys in your area that do it. 

10 minutes ago, kwalshy said:

I could save a few bucks by installing plywood or peg board where I want it on my own.  

Real good idea there..might offset the extra cost of spray if any. If your handy with a hammer you could save yourself some money by pecking away at things after the builder does his thing. Much like @rmaynard's barn build. 

I don't know if it was mentioned but spray foam beefs up a building structurally pretty substantial. 

 

On the ceiling I'd have to ponder that abit but would lean towards the blown in option. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by WHX??

[ebinmaine 67,421]

4 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

ceiling

I've read that condensation can still be a problem if there isn't a waterproof layer AT the metal. 

Thoughts anyone?

[WHX?? 48,814]

You mean on the top of trusses and under the steel?  Yah that should be there regardless. What the pros use now it like 1/4" of some type of foam board if there is going to be a insulated attic.  I've seen guys use tar paper but wouldn't be in my shed. I would also do visqueen on the bottoms of trusses before the interior liner goes on.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by WHX??

[ebinmaine 67,421]

10 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

visqueen

You talking on what is basically the ceiling of the garage?

 

 

 

I'm pretty happy this thread showed up because I'm just beginning to process the thoughts about what we want to have done......

[WHX?? 48,814]

2 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

You talking on what is basically the ceiling of the garage?

Yep and under the roofing steel. 

 

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm just beginning to process the thoughts about what we want to have done......

Yah we can hear the gears turning from here. 

 

One thing we're all forgetting is Walshy hires one of the builders he posted he hopefully, should, or better know what we are yakin about and should be able to coach him accordingly if he's any kind of a good guy. 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

1 minute ago, WHX?? said:

can hear the gears turning

Nahhh ..

That's my bones and joints crunching as I get in and out of the truck.  

[Ed Kennell 38,133]

3 hours ago, kwalshy said:

 Yes, I would like a floor drain.  The purpose will primarily be for washing the tractor or truck and the floor after butchering a deer.  I will have a few conduits installed so I can run power, water into the barn at a later date on my own.   

 

I would go with a cleanable drain pit.   A real necessity when butchering.    I have my deer hoist centered over the pit so it catches everything.    The pit is 18" square so I can use a shovel to clean out the big debri that will not pass thru the finer standard floor drain cover.

 

I would also price in a roof overhang on sides and gable ends.     It not only adds value to the building, but along with proper grading will help prevent any moisture problems.

 

[JimSraj 429]

Absolutely!! To the overhang suggestion. Both on the eaves and the gables if it’s a gable roof. Make those rafter tails as long as you can. I have 18” on the gable ends and 36” on the eaves of my barn. Helps protect the walls and offers storage for ladders, etc. under the eaves. 

[ebinmaine 67,421]

9 hours ago, JimSraj said:

overhang suggestion

The one we're looking at here would have a 10 ft shed roof on each side. The long wall would be built and ends open. Tons of "hangin' stuff" area and a  firewood row inside that wall. 

[WHX?? 48,814]

Really good suggestion Ed & Jim ...I love a good "hangover" and my warehouse has two footers all the way around lean to not included. They say it adds to curb apeal. Now I don't know about that but momma always said they look nice. 

That designer link I posted Walshy lets you add soffits to your desired width just to give a guy a idea how much $$ more. 

[lynnmor 7,305]

Be careful about installing a floor drain, the inspector nazi might call it an injection well and make you tear it out.  You could install a pipe to just below the floor surface and the chip out the concrete after inspections are done.  

 

Getting back to rain gutters, we are to have gutter guard on them if they go to an underground seepage pit.  The builder and gutter installer never heard of that till I showed them the code.

[ebinmaine 67,421]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

gutter

Far as I know that's not code here. I'll have to check.