Tubeless front tire flat - can I use a tube?

[davem1111 2,030]

I bought this 416-8 last fall, and noticed that it had a front tire going flat within a few days.  Then I noticed a big ugly plug in it, so I guess the previous owner tried to repair it.  I ordered a pair of tubes but as with most tubes the valve is centered on the inside, where these wheels have the valve hole set off to the side.  Has anyone 1) used this kind of tube, and 2) do I need to drill a new valve hole centered on the inside of the rim?  or should I just re-plug the tire or replace it?  Or, fill them with (what?) so they never go flat? (I have a neighbor with a Ford tractor who had his tires filled because the honey locusts kept puncturing them. Not sure what material is used for that).

 

I have a 312-A that is undergoing some repairs and would just swap wheels for now, but the front wheels are smaller on the 312-A.

 

Thanks - Dave

[SylvanLakeWH 25,598]

I’ve used tubes with no problems. No drilling.

 

Never tried to plug one…

 

if tire is in poor shape maybe replace anyways?

[peter lena 8,634]

@davem1111  tried  different repairs , tubes and tire sealant pressure can . most important part of pressure can is to have soft inflation in the tire to hold its shape , elevate it off ground , shake can well , make sure its room temp , screw it on tire valve , and pressurize tire with can button , fill it up hard with pressure , then make sure you drive it around , don,t worry about exact tire pressure , which is less , you want the sealant pressure to  find the leak in rotation . that is key . picture a sticky sealant  covering the inside of the tire , under rotation .  its worked for me . you can always back off pressure later , but not much . pete 

[pfrederi 17,741]

I would not recommend any sealant if I thought I i might ever have to take the tire off again.  Someone used it on a front tire on one of my WHs what a pain to demount and clean the rims.  Some Tire shops will charge extra if the tire has been slimed....

[oldlineman 1,481]

DOUBLE!

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,326]

Since your tubes aren’t the right ones maybe try to plug it again.

  Or if your real motivated take the tire off the rim and do a patch. Many years ago (gulp..38 years) I worked at a small 3 bay repair garage. The owner was against plugging tires and I was taught to patch em.
 Dismount, die-grind the inside, clean, slop on some boot cement, apply rubber patch, slop on more boot cement, let dry, remount tire, air up, dunk tire in tank to check for a leak. 

[davem1111 2,030]

3 hours ago, Sparky said:

Since your tubes aren’t the right ones maybe try to plug it again.

  Or if your real motivated take the tire off the rim and do a patch. Many years ago (gulp..38 years) I worked at a small 3 bay repair garage. The owner was against plugging tires and I was taught to patch em.
 Dismount, die-grind the inside, clean, slop on some boot cement, apply rubber patch, slop on more boot cement, let dry, remount tire, air up, dunk tire in tank to check for a leak. 

 

Guess I should have asked before buying the tubes, but it's not a big loss if I don't use them.  Since SylvanLakeWH says he's used tubes before, I'm guessing either they had the valve offset to the side or it doesn't hurt to twist them a bit. But since I have to take the tire off to put a tube in it anyway, I like the idea of patching it on the inside where the somewhat ineffective plug is. I haven't priced new tires, but if I decide to make this tractor look really nice I may buy both new rims and tires for the front.  Back has brand new shiny ones already. She only needs a bit of sanding and paint to look pretty good.  My 312-A tires are all dry rotted so there will be some money involved there down the road.

 

Yeah, I've heard that slime in tires can be a real headache. I keep some around but only for dire emergencies.

 

One more question, without referring to the manuals (which I will probably do later anyway), do these seem to be the stock wheel sizes?  Both tractors have the same size rear wheels and tires, but the 312-A fronts are at least an inch smaller in diameter. 416-8 has 16 x 6.50 - 8.  If I'm buying new rims and tires I'll want to get stock sizes.

 

Thanks!  -Dave

[pfrederi 17,741]

Most 300 series had 6" fronts

[Handy Don 12,235]

14 hours ago, davem1111 said:

12-A fronts are at least an inch smaller in diameter. 416-8 has 16 x 6.50 - 8.

Lot of folks have changed their stock 6" wheels to 8" because they like the look.

Note, though, that the correct spindles for the 8" wheels are 1" shorter so going to larger wheels without also changing spindles raises the front end by 1". This would affect your mower setup but not much else.

[davem1111 2,030]

20 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Lot of folks have changed their stock 6" wheels to 8" because they like the look.

Note, though, that the correct spindles for the 8" wheels are 1" shorter so going to larger wheels without also changing spindles raises the front end by 1". This would affect your mower setup but not much else.

 

Another detail that is good to know.  I have the tractors parked side-by-side in the garage, and that exact thought had occurred to me. I think I'd want to go with the correct spindles if I switch to 8" wheels on the 312-A, partly because of the mower setup. But that said, my mower/implement lift handle doesn't work quite right (another thing on the "fix it" list...), so that makes it hard to adjust the deck height. Sometimes it just drops with no warning, guessing there is a stop tooth or something that is broken. Need to look into the manual.  How many stop points is the lift handle supposed to have?

[seven 202]

On 2/26/2022 at 11:34 AM, davem1111 said:

I bought this 416-8 last fall, and noticed that it had a front tire going flat within a few days.  Then I noticed a big ugly plug in it, so I guess the previous owner tried to repair it.  I ordered a pair of tubes but as with most tubes the valve is centered on the inside, where these wheels have the valve hole set off to the side.  Has anyone 1) used this kind of tube, and 2) do I need to drill a new valve hole centered on the inside of the rim?  or should I just re-plug the tire or replace it?  Or, fill them with (what?) so they never go flat? (I have a neighbor with a Ford tractor who had his tires filled because the honey locusts kept puncturing them. Not sure what material is used for that).

 

I have a 312-A that is undergoing some repairs and would just swap wheels for now, but the front wheels are smaller on the 312-A.

 

Thanks - Dave

I would get the right tubes they make em common tubes 

[Goldnboy 926]

I'm with @Sparky tire repair is kind of a lost art. I have repaired many tractor and implement tires the way he described.  Most shops nowadays will not patch items with sidewall punctures because they want less labor cost and new sells. Yet it not like my machne is going faster thsn 10 MPH. I recently fixed two front tires on a machine acquired that had a plug and slime in it , it was a mess  took about a dozen rags to clean but using two new tubes and I was set. Do it right the first time no short cuts..

[Handy Don 12,235]

49 minutes ago, davem1111 said:

But that said, my mower/implement lift handle doesn't work quite right (another thing on the "fix it" list...), so that makes it hard to adjust the deck height. Sometimes it just drops with no warning, guessing there is a stop tooth or something that is broken. Need to look into the manual.  How many stop points is the lift handle supposed to have?

The lift arm itself on most manuals has only two positions--down and up. But a lot tractors have a wheel that controls a stop that sets the "down" position. That wheel wasn't included on a number of the lower end models.

It sounds, off the cuff, like either your lift arm isn't able to move far enough "up" to let the stop rod fully engage or else there is wear at the rod or slot that is not letting the arm stay in place when there is a load on it. (Could also be that the spring on the arm release is too weak to let the stop rod fully engage.)

I'm sure you realize that for mowers on the 300, 400, and 500 series the cutting height is set on the deck--the lift arm is only to get the deck off the ground for traveling.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Handy Don

[davem1111 2,030]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

The lift arm itself on most manuals has only two positions--down and up. But a lot tractors have a wheel that controls a stop that sets the "down" position. That wheel wasn't included on a number of the lower end models.

It sounds, off the cuff, like either your lift arm isn't able to move far enough "up" to let the stop rod fully engage or else there is wear at the rod or slot that is not letting the arm stay in place when there is a load on it. (Could also be that the spring on the arm release is too weak to let the stop rod fully engage.)

I'm sure you realize that for mowers on the 300, 400, and 500 series the cutting height is set on the deck--the lift arm is only to get the deck off the ground for traveling.

 

Well, you may be assuming a bit too much about what I know    Honestly, my wife bought the 312-A before we were married (I helped her pick it out though - we were dating at the time), and aside from the basics of keeping it running, oil changes, replacing worn blades & belts, filling the hydro reservoir, etc., oh, and fixing a broken steering bracket, I haven't messed with it much and never figured out how the cutting height adjustments work.  The deck's rear wheels have a height adjustment but that seems like half or less of the picture. Guess I should hit the manual on the height/leveling procedures. Thanks!

[davem1111 2,030]

2 hours ago, Goldnboy said:

I'm with @Sparky tire repair is kind of a lost art. I have repaired many tractor and implement tires the way he described.  Most shops nowadays will not patch items with sidewall punctures because they want less labor cost and new sells. Yet it not like my machne is going faster thsn 10 MPH. I recently fixed two front tires on a machine acquired that had a plug and slime in it , it was a mess  took about a dozen rags to clean but using two new tubes and I was set. Do it right the first time no short cuts..

 

Hmmm... well, I started trying to remove that tire this weekend, but I don't have a tire machine. I have one large tire iron, and a crowbar, but with what wasn't actually a "Herculean" effort I wasn't able to pop the bead on either side so I moved on to some other projects I wanted to get done.  Does even a wheel this small usually require a machine? Maybe squeezing it with a large C-clamp?

 

I did go as far as removing the old plug, and thought I had some plugs around but can't find them. I may buy some more and see if I can sucessfully plug it again before I go any further. The rubber looks decent so I don't think I need to replace the tires, but since I'm thinking about coverting the 312-A to 8" fronts I may buy another set of wheels & tires, then I can interchange them. Haven't priced these yet, or spindles for the 312-A for correct height with 8" wheels. May need to wait to see if I'm getting a decent tax refund this year before diving into that.

 

[Handy Don 12,235]

6 hours ago, davem1111 said:

Well, you may be assuming a bit too much about what I know    

LOL. I was judging by the coherent questions you ask!

Most of the recent mower decks adjust the height with a lever on the deck itself. It directly sets the height of the gage wheels. There is also an arm welded to the gage wheel crossbar--a linkage to that arm governs goes forward to control the height at the front. The linkage bar has an adjusting nut at the rear arm (normally!) so you can get the back at front at the same height. If you get the manual for your deck, it'll have the procedure for leveling it up. It isn't hard at all (need a level and a good ruler) and way worth the 30 minutes it'll take to tune when you see how evenly the cut comes out.

IMHO, little tires are harder than big ones. You really have to get the bead down into the valley in the center of the rim. I use sturdy plastic bicycle tire levers.

Edited February 28, 2022 by Handy Don