Designing an Ice Cream Maker Attachment

[lynnmor 7,229]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

The crushed plain-water ice would only turn to water and make good contact with the cream tub at temps above 32--too warm for ice cream!

Adding salt gets you water at 28-30º plus good contact with the tub--good for freezing cream!

Actually the salt and ice mixture can get down to zero.

[wallfish 16,739]

5 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

I'm on the fence going this route as their would be a fair amount of belt guard work to keep it safe for kids to be around.

Going the gearbox route would be an easier design to put smaller guards on to keep it safe at shows.  But time will tell.

One belt, 2 pulleys plus the gearbox is what I was referring to. Different pulley sizes get it to the proper final RPM you want. There's no need for a more expensive gearbox as the cheaper $150 60:1 seems like plenty to work with an ice cream maker, but I don't know the actual gearing on the ice cream maker itself.

Interesting is the hydraulic motor idea as that can open up all kinds of options like locating it on the back, a trailer etc.

Another consideration might be turning it with a 12v electric gear motor. No pulleys, no belt guards no hydraulics and it can easily be switched to another tractor and mounted front or back.

? 50 rpm ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/370856802400?hash=item5658c9b860:g:vWQAAOSwOupcc2r-

But the 12v motor opens up questions about charging, and such.

The biggest dilemma with any option is----- What flavor?

[ebinmaine 66,449]

31 minutes ago, wallfish said:

The biggest dilemma with any option is----- What flavor?

We're gonna need a LOT more tractors!!!

[CCW 1,280]

54 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 

The biggest dilemma with any option is----- What flavor?

 

Well years ago I knew a guy who made banana/quahog ice cream.  When asked about strawberry/quahog ice cream he replied that strawberries don't go with quahogs.  Go figure.

[Skipper 1,788]

Does it have to be an ice and salt reaction type? Otherwise I would think you could run an AC compressor too, and freeze that ice cream the "modern" way 

 

Some AC components from an old car, a few fittings and some cupper pipe, a 10$ refrigerant can from wally world, and you should be able to go new school on this project  

 

Just an idea!

Edited February 24, 2022 by Skipper

[Skipper 1,788]

Did a little pondering on it, just for fun. 

 

A typical car AC is about 10.000 BTU/4hp. 

 

Assuming ice cream base and water has roughly same thermal properties, this actually looks doable. Lets say a good summers day, 86 deg. temp. You want to make a gallon of ice cream. First you need to get it to the freezing point but still liquid at 32 deg. That's roughly 450BTU. Then you want to phase change it into a solid, and that's another 1200 BTU if you go to all stiff, which you probably don't. That means at the most 1650BTU, + some for system loss. Fair guess is that it would take from 10-15 minutes to freeze that gallon of ice cream. depending on how frozen you want it. IF its possible to make all 10.000 BTU capacity come to use. I'm no HVAC guy, but perhaps someone here knows?

 

Now for getting rid of the heat, let's assume the system is poorly insulated, and has a lot of loss. Lets say we need 4000BTU dissipated. If we make a 20 gallon water tank on the back of the tractor with some cupper tube in, that could be a good condenser, and those 20 gallon would then see 200 BTU/Gallon, which would raise the tank temp by 24 deg.

All doable I think. Damn..............Do I really need one of these as much as I think I do 

Hey, this could also be a beer cooler ........... 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Skipper

[SylvanLakeWH 25,085]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

We're gonna need a LOT more tractors!!!

Or…

 

We could just typical Americans…DQ drive-thru… 

 

[Handy Don 11,846]

16 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Hey, this could also be a beer cooler ......

And, at the same time, heat water for showers? 

[WHX?? 47,966]

Good ideas fellas but I like the idea of staying  before Ben invented legtricity and after Elmer invented the Suburban!  I double checked yer math Tom, had to take my shoes off but spot on. 

So a K91 has to idle at what 1200 rpm or so for proper lube? I'm thinkin around 1800 rpm?? Get the final speed with 'Fishes pullies? 

Edited February 24, 2022 by WHX??

[oliver2-44 9,379]

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Actually the salt and ice mixture can get down to zero.

Agree, I'm reading that a proper ice salt mixture in a ice cream freeze typically gets it down to 10F

 

1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Or…

We could just typical Americans…DQ drive-thru… 

Not  @SylvanLakeWH just how does that justify more tractors in the barn.  

 

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

 

So a K91  I'm thinkin around 1800 rpm?? Get the final speed with 'Fishes pullies? 

1800rpm with a 40:1 gearbox gives an output of 45 rpm which is a nice speed.  Tractor to gearbox would be 1:1 pulley size.  Speed up a little or slow down a little as I learn the best speed.  Definitely will put a little induction digital tack on the K91 for speed calculations.   

 

 

3 hours ago, wallfish said:

One belt, 2 pulleys plus the gearbox is what I was referring to. Different pulley sizes get it to the proper final RPM you want. There's no need for a more expensive gearbox as the cheaper $150 60:1 seems like plenty to work with an ice cream maker, but I don't know the actual gearing on the ice cream maker itself.

Interesting is the hydraulic motor idea as that can open up all kinds of options like locating it on the back, a trailer etc.

Another consideration might be turning it with a 12v electric gear motor. No pulleys, no belt guards no hydraulics and it can easily be switched to another tractor and mounted front or back.

? 50 rpm ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/370856802400?hash=item5658c9b860:g:vWQAAOSwOupcc2r-

But the 12v motor opens up questions about charging, and such.

The biggest dilemma with any option is----- What flavor?

Agree with the one belt, 2 pullies and one gearbox.  I would the 1/2 HP  would be strong enough, but I've read some have shelled out gearboxes when they they ran ice cream to hard and it stalled out.  need to think of some kind of inexpensive slip clutch or slip method like  @lynnmor suggested.  I'm thinking an idler pulley with a weak spring that would let belt start slipping.  Throw me some more ideas on this one.

 

I'm thinking one for each flavor ice cream, plus Margarite, Strawberry Daiquiri, Pinna Coloda.  I make Pina Coloda's  and add Blue Bell vanilla ice cream and ameratto.  The ladies love it. its like Dessert!

[oliver2-44 9,379]

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Actually the salt and ice mixture can get down to zero.

Agree, I'm reading that a proper ice salt mixture in a ice cream freeze typically gets it down to 10F

 

1 hour ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

Or…

We could just typical Americans…DQ drive-thru… 

 

3 hours ago, wallfish said:

One belt, 2 pulleys plus the gearbox is what I was referring to. Different pulley sizes get it to the proper final RPM you want. There's no need for a more expensive gearbox as the cheaper $150 60:1 seems like plenty to work with an ice cream maker, but I don't know the actual gearing on the ice cream maker itself.

Interesting is the hydraulic motor idea as that can open up all kinds of options like locating it on the back, a trailer etc.

Another consideration might be turning it with a 12v electric gear motor. No pulleys, no belt guards no hydraulics and it can easily be switched to another tractor and mounted front or back.

? 50 rpm ?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/370856802400?hash=item5658c9b860:g:vWQAAOSwOupcc2r-

But the 12v motor opens up questions about charging, and such.

The biggest dilemma with any option is----- What flavor?

Agree with the one belt, 2 pullies and one gearbox.  I would the 1/2 HP  would be strong enough, but I've read some have shelled out gearboxes when they they ran ice cream to hard and it stalled out.  need to think of some kind of inexpensive slip clutch or slip methos like  

Not just how does that justify more tractors in the barn.  

You've got to be thinking one for each flavor, plus margarite, strawberry daiquiri, pinna colotta 

 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,085]

15 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Not  @SylvanLakeWH just how does that justify more tractors in the barn

mia culpa… 

[oliver2-44 9,379]

So for the design:

K91 with a 2" pulley belted to a 2" pulley on the 40"to 1 gearbox. (may need to go larger equal size pullies for idler to work)

Maybe an idler pulley on that belt with a weak spring to act as a slip clutch (or other clutch ideas) 

The ice cream make crank assembly has a 7/16 shaft to the handle, and I've read the handle is s RH thread screwed onto the shaft 

The 2nd picture below shows the end of the crank which measures 0.340 so that seems to agree it is screwed on.

 

I'm thinking I could use a Lovejoy coupling to connect between the gear box and ice cream makers crank assembly shaft. 

Maybe put a threaded knob in place of one of the set screws to be able to easily loosen/slide 1/2 of the coupling back to lift the crank assembly off (open to other ideas here, or a simple clutch to use in place of the lovejoy) 

The wooden tub will be held down to the 2x6 steel tubing with steel rods. (After proving design this might get changed to stainless due to exposure to salt water)   

Some flexible tubing could be fit to the wooden buckets upper drip holes and run down to one of those square funnel topped oil drain tubs to collect the salt water. the tubs funnel top would also catch any salt water that leaked out the wooden barrel.

When the time comes i may need to consult formitz for some barrel bottom improvement on the 1 gallon makers barrel. 

 

[oliver2-44 9,379]

Here's some clutch idea I came across, 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NGWZ4OG/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=AGN0TYUBAKKKC&psc=1

Wish this one below was smaller and less expensive. It might not be able to be set low enough for just the ice cream maker load.  The disconnect part of it would be a nice feature

https://farmpartsstore.com/quick-disconnect-o-run-clutch-51a110/?us&gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrNqrLkwIwKM8CsNRvJ5BIq3h-UBsXD6bVJxUUHH7mMAx0QRoSYPiohoC9_gQAvD_BwE

 

Ya'll got any others?

[8ntruck 6,829]

You could use a ball detent torque limiter to protect the drive train from a freeze up.

 

A ball detent torque limiter is basically a plate with spring loaded balls on the drive side and a plate with detents on the driven side.  When the torque gets high enough, the spring loaded balls will rise out of the detents against the springs and disconnect the driven side from the drive.  The disconnect torque is set by the size and number of the balls, the strength of the springs, and the geometry of the detents.  

Edited February 25, 2022 by 8ntruck

[Pullstart 62,098]

What about a loose cub cadet clutch assembly?  

[wallfish 16,739]

9 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

Ya'll got any others?

Sticking with the WH theme and parts, incorporate a PTO clutch system to slip?

Not on the motor of the suburban because that would probably look funny and slipping  anything before the output shaft of the gearbox probably won't work as well. Tension could be adjusted so it slips when the ice cream is done. Quite a bit more engineering involved with that.

What about a drill chuck ? I have some broken cordless drills you can have to try and make something. Maybe the slip setting on it could work for adjustments and the chuck loosened to easily remove the shaft to the ice cream maker.

The slip clutches in my hand concrete core drills are basically washers pinched in between 2 gear sides. The tension of squeezing the gears together adjusts the slip but the gearbox is filled with oil. 

Not much info in the ad on this thing but the price is right to do some research on. Looks to be adjustable by the threads and lock nut.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/132576683010?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-213727-13078-0&mkcid=2&itemid=132576683010&targetid=4581183927179149&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=418233787&mkgroupid=1241348861725295&rlsatarget=pla-4581183927179149&abcId=9300542&merchantid=51291&msclkid=779b58eefb811f32f62a3af6230ed431

Just throwing $&!t against the wall again to see what sticks. Maybe set off a light bulb some where

[Pullstart 62,098]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

What about a drill chuck ?

your outside the box thinking never ceases to amaze me.

[wallfish 16,739]

1 hour ago, Pullstart said:

your outside the box thinking never ceases to amaze me.

Well, my wife calls it something else and she's never amazed so thanks for keeping up the encouragement!

She seems to prefer fixing stuff with "real" replacement parts instead of something resourcefully conjured up from the shed. BORING!

resourcefully conjured up from the shed = a nice way of saying hacked LoL

[Handy Don 11,846]

To my way of thinking, half of a good idea is an invitation to figure out the other half!

[oliver2-44 9,379]

On 2/24/2022 at 9:17 PM, Pullstart said:

What about a loose cub cadet clutch assembly?  

I need to hobble out to the shop. I’ve got a yellow Kohler parts motor wiith some part of a clutch on it 

 

14 hours ago, wallfish said:

What about a drill chuck ?

I like this idea. I’ve got to dig around. I had one with a shot motor for a few year and sadly may have recently trashed it. 

Edited February 26, 2022 by oliver2-44

[Kenneth R Cluley 502]

Here are a couple of engine driven models I saw @ the Flywheelers show today. Just thought you might like to see the drive method. Owner said same thing about RPM's and ability to disengage. They both have similar spring loaded belt tensioners.

[sjoemie himself 3,046]

Maybe try to regulate the stall with the idler pulley? Make the spring for the idler adjustable so you can tune the tension. That way if the ice cream maker stalls the belt slips..

Probably no good for the lifespan of the belt but cheaper than a new gearbox

[oliver2-44 9,379]

8 hours ago, sjoemie himself said:

Maybe try to regulate the stall with the idler pulley? Make the spring for the idler adjustable so you can tune the tension. That way if the ice cream maker stalls the belt slips..

Probably no good for the lifespan of the belt but cheaper than a new gearbox

That was my original thought. But I'm reslly likeing @wallfish ideal of trying a chuck from a battery powered rill that has a slip clutch.  Sadly I did recently chunk the old one i had recently. But i seen the at Goodwill will no batteries frequently.  I did some testing with my existing drill and this idea has good potential. Here's a simple ice cream recipe I received.  Tried it this past summer with a hand crank and it's great.

 

Tractor Home Made Ice cream	5 Gallons	5 Gal in oz	1 Gallon in oz 1 quart in oz	1.5 gal in oz	1 Qt in oz
Half and Half	3 quarts	96	19.2	28.8	4.8
Whipping Cream	3 quarts	96	19.2	28.8	4.8
Milk	1-1/2 gallons	192	38.4	57.7	9.6
Pasteurized eggs (Eggbeaters	1 quart	32	6.4	9.6	1.6
Sugar	7 cups	56	11.2	16.8	2.8
vanilla	4oz	4	0.8	1.2	0.2
salt	2 tsp	0.33	0.066	0.1	0.0165
Ice cream	5 Gallons	5 Gal in ml	1 Gallon in ml		1 qt in ml
Half and Half	3 quarts	96	19.2		4.8
Whipping Cream	3 quarts	96	19.2		4.8
Milk	1-1/2 gallons	192	38.4		9.6
Pasteurized eggs (Eggbeaters	1 quart	32	6.4		1.6
Sugar	7 cups	56	11.2		2.8
vanilla	4oz	4	0.8		0.2
salt	2 tsp	0.33	0.066		0.0165

[oliver2-44 9,379]

On 2/24/2022 at 12:03 PM, lynnmor said:

Yes, the salt reacts with the ice turning it into a liquid that is colder than the freezing point.  That is what happens on the road surface when salt is applied and also what helps freeze the water imbedded in the pavement which causes pot holes.  I think they call the process job security.

Rereading all this, you bring out a question I’ve also been pondering. Crank Speed verses. Drum Speed.   Time to count gear teeth in the crank head and time some hand cranking to see what comes closest to 40-60.  No text book available on this one. Maybe a neighbor has an electric one I can borrow and check.