Designing an Ice Cream Maker Attachment

[oliver2-44 9,750]

So in my ongoing Suburban Restoration I mentioned I had a special attachment planned.

So while I can't be real active in the shop I wanted to get ya'll input/help with the design of this attachment.

I've searched RS, other tractor forums, Hit and Miss forums and have found pictures, but no real details about building an Ice Cream  Maker attachment.

What I have learned is that the maker needs to be turned at somewhere between 40 to 60 rpm.  I've been told you need to find the right speed in that range so your particular maker produces "smooth creamy" soft serve verses ice crystal soft serve.

 I'm anticipating to run the Kohler k91 at around 3200 to give me some room for up/down speed adjustment and support good splash oil lubrication 

With the tractor at 3200 rpm and the ice cream make at 50 rpm that a 64 to 1 ratio 

There is a gear in the hand crank drive and I need to see if it is a 1-1 or  some ratio. 

My  very general plan is to use a Dozer Blade mount on the front of my Suburban's

Here a picture of the 2 front pieces of a Suburban Dozer Blade Mount.

 

Here's some pictures of the mount parts 

 

 

 

 

The above horizontal blade mount piece is made from a piece of 2" x 6"" steel box tubing and I would replace it with a same size piece of tubing. This would extend forward and be the base for the wooden bucket.

This tubing base could also work well to mount bearing to or through for any horizontal pulley shafts needed.

 

I have a 1-1/2 gallon freezer and it measures 14-1/4" tall and 11-1/2" dia at the top and 10-1/8" dia at the bottom.

 

 

I also have a 1 gallon freezer and it measures 13-1/2" tall and 11-1/4" dia at the top and 9-1/4" dia at the bottom.

 

So the design will need to include:

1. A container under the mount or built onto the mount to catch the overflow of saltwater from the maker.  (Don't want to kill the lawn or show grounds grass)

2. A mount to hold the maker on top the 2x6 tubing. Probably will consist of a bottom ring and a top ring with vertical supports.

3. Some way to connect the maker horizontal top drive shaft to the drive from the tractor, but be easily separable to remove the ice cream canister.

4. An arrangement of pulleys and or gearbox to slow the belt from the tractor engine to slow the maker down to 40-60 rpm.

5. The ice cream maker shaft needs to be turned clockwise.
   

Here's some pictures of other ice cream makers I've collected.  Does anyone recognize the people with the WH tractors and ice cream makers. This looks like it could be at the Big Show some years ago.

All of the the ice cream makers below are probable 3-5 gallon, much larger than my 1-1-1/2 gallon.

Anyone recognize the gearbox their using? 

 

The ice cream makers can also make your favorite frozen drink.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by oliver2-44

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,043]

Gear box is likely one of these

https://www.princessauto.com/en/horizontal-shaft-worm-gear-speed-reducers/product/PA1000001375

Trying to find the correct lubricant for one right now.

[oliver2-44 9,750]

@gwest_ca I've been looking at gearboxes on Ebay and you nail it right out of the saddle, Thank You.  

 

So now this is where it gets expensive, how much horsepower do I need on the output shaft for an ice cream maker?.

A 60;1 gear box with a 0.5 hp output rating cost around $150

A 60;1 gear box with a 0.86 hp output rating cost around $220

A 60;1 gear box with a 1.16 hp output rating cost around $280

 

Any thought on something that would have a similar used gear box?  Maybe some mower deck gear box.

[8ntruck 7,004]

I would think that a 1/2 hp would be plenty.  After all, you do crank these things by hand.

 

I think I was a skinny 7 or 8 year old when I first met a hand crank ice cream maker.

 

I think that the hand cranks are geared somewhere around 3 to 5 cranks per rotation of the tank.

 

I just did some looking on the interweb about motor sizes for ice cream freezers.  Specs on a $2,600, twenty quart machine list a 3/4 hp 110 volt motor that draws 11 amps at full load.  Looks like this same company will sell a wagon mounted hit and miss powered set up for about $6,800.

Edited February 24, 2022 by 8ntruck

[roadapples 6,983]

A few years back I talked to a guy who had one hooked up to a hit or miss engine. Said he got it off of the internet. He said they had them for different applications. 

[ebinmaine 67,494]

"cool" project. 🥶🥶🥶

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,043]

An implement pto may be a good place to start if you could find one

 

[wallfish 16,999]

A $150 gearbox should be plenty. The final RPM can be adjusted by the pulley sizes used. Use an online pulley size RPM calculator to get within the range you need it to be

 

[rmaynard 15,458]

12 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

Does anyone recognize the people with the WH tractors and ice cream makers. This looks like it could be at the Big Show some years ago.

 

 

 

Back in 2014 this is a picture of the ice cream makers at the WHCC show that year. Sorry, I don't know who they are, but the ice cream was great.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,867]

Awesome project!  We have an electric ice cream maker and I think the top stays open and the sides have an ice cavity.  
 

When I picked up “Thirty Five” from an estate sale, I also grabbed a gear box that looks very similar to these ones.  The jackshaft and pulley design on the JD looks very simple and easy to recreate though.  I looked through my pictures of my pick up day and don’t have any of the gear box…

 

As for clockwise v. counterclockwise, could you simply twist a belt 180 degrees if needed?

[Pullstart 62,867]

80:1… I was close!

Edited February 24, 2022 by Pullstart

[lynnmor 7,306]

When building an ice cream maker drive, remember that they were designed to stall a small electric motor or become too difficult to manually crank when the ice cream is done.  With a gasoline engine powering it, the governor will simply open the throttle till something gives.  I would add a torque limiting clutch in the system.

[oliver2-44 9,750]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:03 AM, wallfish said:

A $150 gearbox should be plenty. The final RPM can be adjusted by the pulley sizes used. Use an online pulley size RPM calculator to get within the range you need it to be

 

I've built a spreadsheet and have all kind of options calculated using pulleys. I even have a box of various pullies I've acquired over time.  I'm on the fence going this route as their would be a fair amount of belt guard work to keep it safe for kids to be around.

Going the gearbox route would be an easier design to put smaller guards on to keep it safe at shows.  But time will tell.

 

 

On 2/24/2022 at 4:08 AM, gwest_ca said:

An implement pto may be a good place to start if you could find one

 

That would be so cool, but they are scarce.  Anyone have one they want to let go of!  

 

 

On 2/24/2022 at 7:31 AM, Pullstart said:

80:1… I was close!

With a larger pulley on the motor than the gearbox, that would get to 50rpm.  If you were closer we'd be doing some negotiating.  Then again maybe I'll inspire you to build one for your kids!

But you've made me remember a Military salvage yard about and hour from me.  I got a military K91 from him that has a tapered shaft  that needs to be swapped out.

The guy buys a lot from surplus auctions at Fort Hood which is near him.  Warmer day road trip!

 

Then again I could just go with a hydraulic motor and and drive it off my hydraulic driven Case 180

Wait, if I go hydraulic I would need to milk this for a Loader Tractor to get the hydraulics' off of.  So many options, guess I need to build several of these

Edited February 27, 2022 by oliver2-44

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

I've seen these ice cream makers before but have no clue what makes them work. I'll be following this closely, looks very interesting.

Also, that is a really nice Case!

Edited February 24, 2022 by sjoemie himself
Added info

[ebinmaine 67,494]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

I got a military K91 from him that has a tapered shaft  that needs to be swapped out.

Not to get too far off subject but why does it need to be swapped out? Tapered shafts can be modified to a straight shaft if necessary. There are adapters available.

 

 

To get back on the subject...

What is it that makes the ice cream COLD in these portable makers?

[8ntruck 7,004]

Salt and ice makes the COLD.  The ice cream mix goes into the rotating tank, and the ice and salt mix in the bucket freeze it.

 

There are stationary scrapers on the inside surface of the drum and mixing fins to scrape the frozen mix off of the sides and mix it in.

 

80:1 gearbox.  At 3600 rpm, the output speed would be 45 rpm.  If you wanted a drum speed of 50 rpm, you would need to increase the input speed by the same ratio that the crank to drum has.  If the crank to drum ratio is 3:1, you would need a 1:3 belt drive between the pto and gearbox.

Edited February 24, 2022 by 8ntruck

[Pullstart 62,867]

Yep, @ebinmaine the ice with the salt actually lowers the freezing point, or something like that.  

[lynnmor 7,306]

Yes, the salt reacts with the ice turning it into a liquid that is colder than the freezing point.  That is what happens on the road surface when salt is applied and also what helps freeze the water imbedded in the pavement which causes pot holes.  I think they call the process job security.

[WHX?? 48,815]

I guess I don't understand why the engine RPM needs to be high? A hit n miss only runs at what 600-700 and that's what we see at shows on makers. 

Good project Ollie! 

[ebinmaine 67,494]

6 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

why the engine RPM needs to be high?

As long as there is enough RPM to keep the engine oil splashing and the air moving it should be fine. I don't see an ice cream maker being a huge load for any gas engine in these tractors so maybe half throttle or a little higher should be ok ......?

[Handy Don 12,225]

55 minutes ago, Pullstart said:

Yep, @ebinmaine the ice with the salt actually lowers the freezing point, or something like that.  

The crushed plain-water ice would only turn to water and make good contact with the cream tub at temps above 32--too warm for ice cream!

Adding salt gets you water at 28-30º plus good contact with the tub--good for freezing cream!

[oliver2-44 9,750]

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

I guess I don't understand why the engine RPM needs to be high?

 

Thats a good question @WHX?? We always talk about these kohlers need to be run at a good rpm to have adequate splash lubrication. 

 

So my question to everyone is what RPM would you feel comfortable letting you Kohler sit and run 30 minutes at a time to make a batch of ice cream, and another, and another batch of ice cream.

[ebinmaine 67,494]

9 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

 

Thats a good question @WHX?? We always talk about these kohlers need to be run at a good rpm to have adequate splash lubrication. 

 

So my question to everyone is what RPM would you feel comfortable letting you Kohler sit and run 30 minutes at a time to make a batch of ice cream, and another, and another batch of ice cream.

 

We run our Kohler 8 to 16 HP MANUAL transmission tractors at half throttle or a hair more for long periods ... OFTEN. 

 

 

[8ntruck 7,004]

Half throttle is what, 2500 rpm?

[ebinmaine 67,494]

2 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Half throttle is what, 2500 rpm?

Roughly. 

 

By definition I guess it's 2,400 RPM

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by ebinmaine