zinc in engine oil

[briankd 817]

i think this has been discussed here before . talked to my local napa I been using their oil for years the napa brand but it made by and sold under (ashland oil ) Valvoline . they say it still has decent zinc content (conventional sae 30 )and I was looking for a zinc additive . did some looking online and says this napa oil has cut back on the zinc content  in the past decade . 

anyone have any thoughts on this. did check out the koler oils and they pricey . i can get case napa oil 8 quart sae 30 for under 20 bucks and rislone zinc additive at Malwart for 7 bucks 

 i have 3 tractors to change oil and it does add up buying oil to change them all sorry if i seem to be a tight a##@ss

[Skwerl58 737]

I have the zinc additive but have switched to Shell Rotella T1, 30 weight due to its being bettere for older engines. Attached is the description:

https://shell-livedocs.com/data/published/en-US/608098c6-be43-4175-9ae6-8114485a326b.pdf

[kpinnc 12,907]

It's hard to navigate the oil stuff now. Everyone says that oil quality is much better now than years ago. The problem is that those anti-wear additives work against those emissions regulations. In other words, most oil made for a car isn't ideal for an air cooled engine. 

 

If I'm gonna use straight weight oil, then Rotella is pretty good SAE30. Briggs Vanguard also carries good synthetics with zinc additives in all kinds of weights. I've used it (15w50 and 10w30) with two different engines so far with good results. But it is a little pricey.

Edited February 13, 2022 by kpinnc

[lynnmor 7,445]

The easiest way to navigate the purchase of oil for our engines is to look on the bottle to see if it has a SN rating, if it does, put it back on the shelf.  Just remember N means NO.

[squonk 41,741]

This is the inside of a Kohler K341 with 996 hours. I did not clean a thing before this picture was taken. You can see it's almost spotless inside. It was running fine but had a loose balance gear and a broken piston skirt. I have had this for 10 years and 8 of them have been on Rotella 30W and a pinch of zinc additive. The engine has been bored and rebuilt. Camshaft and lifters were fine. I don't think zinc is all that to be worried about.

 

 

[peter lena 8,933]

@briankd  been using rislone zink in my oils,  https://www.amazon.com/Rislone-4405-Supplement-Concentrate-Treargid=pla-  for many hours now , my engines definitely run easier with it , amazon is also the best pricing , regularly use  rotella 30 wt  spring summer  fall . use 5 -30 over winter for faster oil warm up , also added zink . instructions on bottle . you can visible see the better cleaning at hot oil change time , just my own 2 cents . stay after your stuff , pete 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

2 hours ago, briankd said:

napa oil has cut back on the zinc content 

 

ALL oils have cut back the Zinc content!  Not just NAPA.  Has to do with the API specifications.

 

WALMART has the best price on Rotella T1 straight 30W, about $17 a gallon last purchased.

If you add ZDDP to the T1, ONE OZ per quart is all you need.to get to about 1200-1400 ppm of Zinc.

More is NOT better!

 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,719]

17 hours ago, briankd said:

Edited February 14, 2022 by EB-80/8inPA

[EB-80/8inPA 1,719]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

WALMART has the best price on Rotella T1 straight 30W, about $17 a gallon last purchased.

And they seem to be out of stock more often than not.  Does anyone know if the “heavy duty” diesel formulation can be substituted, or would that be a problem?

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

5 minutes ago, EB-80/8inPA said:

out of stock more often than not.

 

I haven't caught them out of stock when I've been in need yet.  I buy 3 gallons at a time typically.

 

I've been hearing good things about the "Super Tech" brand of oil at WM.  Some folks are saying that it's actually the same thing as Mobil 1 ... 

 

 

[EB-80/8inPA 1,719]

6 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I've been hearing good things about the "Super Tech" brand of oil at WM.  Some folks are saying that it's actually the same thing as Mobil 1 ... 

 

 

Hmmm.  First ratchets now this.

[RED-Z06 2,350]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

This is the inside of a Kohler K341 with 996 hours. I did not clean a thing before this picture was taken. You can see it's almost spotless inside. It was running fine but had a loose balance gear and a broken piston skirt. I have had this for 10 years and 8 of them have been on Rotella 30W and a pinch of zinc additive. The engine has been bored and rebuilt. Camshaft and lifters were fine. I don't think zinc is all that to be worried about.

 

 

Wonder what caused the skirt to break?  996 hours is still pretty early to need parts in it.

[RED-Z06 2,350]

I personally run Valvoline VR1 or Amsoil in my small engines, VR1 has considerably more Zinc and is "off road" use.  Zinc kills catalytic convertors...

[EB-80/8inPA 1,719]

4 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

I personally run Valvoline VR1 or Amsoil in my small engines, VR1 has considerably more Zinc and is "off road" use.  Zinc kills catalytic convertors...

Yeah, but look at your exhaust!

[squonk 41,741]

32 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said:

Wonder what caused the skirt to break?  996 hours is still pretty early to need parts in it.

I bought it with 750 ish hours. Had little maintenance before I got it.. Hard to say how long I was running it with the broken piston.

[pacer 3,174]

1 hour ago, EB-80/8inPA said:

"Super Tech" brand of oil at WM. 

 

The "project farm" guy on you tube that does all kinds of topics that us guys would be interested in done a test with Kirkland synthetic and Super Tech synthetic comparisons. Topic was to see if Kirklands cheaper price made it as good or same as wally. End result was - as he put it - virtually the same! Extensive test too..... He goes some good stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9il_piyuT8

 

I recently got a "new" 2011 Tundra that calls for 05-20 synthetic and after some soul searching on changing it I decided on wallys 'Super tech' - way cheaper than Mobil 1 and from what I read on spec info appeared to be the same.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

3 minutes ago, pacer said:

spec info appeared to be the same

 

And I believe it was the project farm guy that informed it was from Warren Oil, same as Mobil One!

[pacer 3,174]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

from Warren Oil, same as Mobil One!

He as much as said that since they were both made by Warren that the oil was just put in different containers.

 

Few year back we had a HUGE battery mfg here and it soon got around town that they made dozens of name brand batteries with many just in different cases/logos. They failed too many EPA cks and faded away along with several hundred jobs.

[RED-Z06 2,350]

1 hour ago, EB-80/8inPA said:

Yeah, but look at your exhaust!

Thats the nitromethanol...had a little bit left over from another project and richened her up to run on it...worked well, very crisp 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

22 minutes ago, pacer said:

HUGE battery mfg

 

Johnson ?

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

4 hours ago, squonk said:

This is the inside of a Kohler K341 with 996 hours. I did not clean a thing before this picture was taken. You can see it's almost spotless inside. It was running fine but had a loose balance gear and a broken piston skirt. I have had this for 10 years and 8 of them have been on Rotella 30W and a pinch of zinc additive. The engine has been bored and rebuilt. Camshaft and lifters were fine. I don't think zinc is all that to be worried about.

 

 

I really have to agree with Mike here pretty strongly. The only time you really need a high ZDDP content is in racing applications.

 

I wouldn't worry about it in a stock engine.

 

Don

[pacer 3,174]

8 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Johnson ?

 

No, IIRC it was Gould? Was some 12-15 yrs ago. They came in and razed the building down and hauled off a big chunk of dirt where it was. Just a big grassy field there now and have never seen a for sale sign go up

[8ntruck 7,217]

Zinc in motor oil is there to improve the extreme pressure performance of the oil.  This was developed at least 50 years ago to work with the babbet type bearings and non roller lifters.  Time marches on, EPA and mileage requirements change, forcing bearing development and making roller lifters common place.  Zinc has been reduced as an additive in motor oil for at least 20 years, as it is one of the heavy metals targeted by the EPA.  Oil has been developed to keep up with the engine developments as well.

 

Our old Kohlers, Onans, and B&S are products of a past era.  They need the zinc in the oil for the improved extremes pressure performance.  Rotella is designed for diesel engine service, where the ep needs are higher than normal modern gasoline engines.  Happily, it also about right for older engines.  ZDDP is a zinc rich additive.  It is well regarded among the classic car community.

[Handy Don 12,859]

57 minutes ago, pacer said:

He as much as said that since they were both made by Warren that the oil was just put in different containers.

 

Few year back we had a HUGE battery mfg here and it soon got around town that they made dozens of name brand batteries with many just in different cases/logos. They failed too many EPA cks and faded away along with several hundred jobs.

Sad to say, but even with all the dirt that left (to where, ya gotta wonder?) its not gonna be easy sell that land except maybe for a solar panel farm.

[Bill D 2,037]

Local power equipment dealer near me sells this.  Pricey, but correct spec for our engines.