WHGuy413 2,683 #1 Posted January 30, 2022 Has anyone had problems with the motion lever not going forward on their hydro’s? My bronco 14 motion lever will not go forward unless the brake pedal is pulled back. Now that I think of it my sons 1077 does it too but he doesn’t complain and just drives it. What can I do to fix the problem? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,028 #2 Posted January 30, 2022 The brake is spring loaded to return full up, but when depressed also moves the motion cam to neutral for obvious reasons. Check your spring on the brake lever. Sounds like it isn't pulling all the way back up. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,751 #3 Posted January 31, 2022 Common problem on most hydros... The easy fix is this: Drill a 1/8" (or less) hole in the BRAKE return ROD. Insert a little cotter pin in that hole, bend it over, and hook a small SPRING to that cotter pin. Other end of spring hooks conveniently to a NOTCH in the hoodstand... This is my C-160 Auto. ( Bronco 14 is same) with FIX APPLIED...took about 15 minutes. 8 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,004 #4 Posted January 31, 2022 Have you cleaned and lubricated the moving parts of the brake and motion control linkages? Doing that on a recently acquired C195 solved similar problems. 2 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peter lena 8,626 #5 Posted January 31, 2022 @8ntruck what's going on ? did you suggest that you LUBRICATE MOTION LINKAGES ? get ready for a backlash , good call, pete 4 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,109 #6 Posted January 31, 2022 Don not lube the motion linkage if it's the friction cone style. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #7 Posted January 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, squonk said: Don not lube the motion linkage if it's the friction cone style. I've heard this before and still don't understand why not. What's the logic behind this Squonk? 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,109 #8 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) The friction cone in the linkage keeps the lever into the position you set it at. Lubing it will make it flop all over. Sometimes "throwing oil at it" hurts instead of helps. @daveoman1966 has pictures explaining it. Edited January 31, 2022 by squonk 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,751 #9 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Simple logic.. The motion control system is largely based on FRICTION to maintain constant positioning and tractor speed. OIL defeats friction. Edited January 31, 2022 by daveoman1966 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,109 #10 Posted January 31, 2022 Friction cone set up. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,004 #11 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) I should clarify where I applied lubrication to the motion control and brake linkages on my C195. This tractor had been out in the weather for an extended period of time before I got it. To start with, the motion control lever did not seem to have full motion - the tractor was faster in reverse than going forward. Also, the brake pedal operation was stiff and needed help returning to the released position. Basically, the motion control lever and brake pedal were stiff, sticky, and hard to operate. I lubricated the cam and control rod joint on top of the transmission and the cam on the interlock between the brake rod and the motion control lever assembly. I also lubricated the pivot points between the motion control assembly where it passes through the sides of the tunnel and the pivot on the brake pedal. I did not apply any lubrication to the friction cone. Getting lubriaction on those sliding and pivoting areas of the motion control and brake linkage restored full range of motion of to the brake pedal and motion control lever. Edited January 31, 2022 by 8ntruck 6 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #12 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Sorry guys, I don't agree... oiling that mechanism will hurt NOTHING. Quote Lubing it will make it flop all over Didn't happen when I cleaned and lubed and adjusted my machines. Oil it and then adjust the friction adjustment as necessary, that's what it's there for. Edited January 31, 2022 by Jeff-C175 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,739 #13 Posted January 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said: Sorry guys, I don't agree... oiling that mechanism will hurt NOTHING. Didn't happen when I cleaned and lubed and adjusted my machines. Oil it and then adjust the friction adjustment as necessary, that's what it's there for. Well sir the manual doesn't recommend lubing it and you are in to references and citations.. what is yours for doing it??? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #14 Posted January 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, pfrederi said: what is yours for doing it??? Both of my C series had extensive rust between the adjusting screw and the shaft. The C-125 that I got recently was nearly rusted together. The "D" on the friction cup where it fits into the bracket was very well worn. It would not stay in neutral because once that "D" wears, there's nothing keeping if from moving... no friction mechanism in play. It took a considerable amount of finesse to get it apart and cleaned up so it operates properly now. A little oil now and then would have prevented that. An ounce of prevention, ya know? OK, so the manual doesn't recommend lubing it... does the manual recommend NOT lubing it? If it says nothing, that's inconclusive evidence. My opinion based on my observations, your mileage may vary. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,109 #15 Posted January 31, 2022 So you're oiling it. Then adding extra friction to keep it from moving all over and changing tractor speed. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pfrederi 17,739 #16 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Since we are into references and citations this is from the Charger Owners manual... 16 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: Both of my C series had extensive rust between the adjusting screw and the shaft. The C-125 that I got recently was nearly rusted together. The "D" on the friction cup where it fits into the bracket was very well worn. It would not stay in neutral because once that "D" wears, there's nothing keeping if from moving... no friction mechanism in play. It took a considerable amount of finesse to get it apart and cleaned up so it operates properly now. A little oil now and then would have prevented that. An ounce of prevention, ya know? OK, so the manual doesn't recommend lubing it... does the manual recommend NOT lubing it? If it says nothing, that's inconclusive evidence. My opinion based on my observations, your mileage may vary. Since we are into references and citations this is from the Charger Owners manual... Edited January 31, 2022 by pfrederi 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #17 Posted January 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, squonk said: Then adding extra friction Reality is that I did not actually have to add any extra friction. In fact, I DECREASED the friction cuz some Bozo PO had it adjusted all the way in, as tight as it could go. There's such a tight fit between the cup and the cone that any oil you put in there is gonna get squeezed right back out again anyway! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #18 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) OK... they specifically mention that the FRICTION COLLAR does not require lubrication. That's all well and good. And since it is OILITE material, I agree that it would not or should not REQUIRE lubrication. But, it will not HURT it if you do get oil on it either. It won't flop around like a limp _____ However, the OTHER parts are not mentioned, and would absolutely benefit from lubrication. You guys are free to do what you want, as am I, and I'm only relating my opinions based on my experiences and observations. Edited January 31, 2022 by Jeff-C175 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
daveoman1966 3,751 #19 Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Inasmuch as the FRICTION COLLAR isn't to be lubed at all, it must also be stated...as we all know...that oil or any type of lube on DRY PARTS is nothing less than a DIRT MAGNET serving no other purpose. ---Dirt helps to wear out parts prematurely.--- There is a TUNNEL COVER on the mtion control apparatus for a reason...to keep dirt & shi_ out. Oil everything up is pointless and may well be to the detriment of function...or longevity...or both. Some even advocate for lube on the nylon CAM and associated parts (124, 129, 130, 131 in pic). There, again, this is all part of the FRICTION CONTROL system ...oil or any lube defeats the nature of FRICTION. Edited January 31, 2022 by daveoman1966 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #20 Posted February 1, 2022 6 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said: You know what is funny @Jeff-C175... out of all the tractors I have seen, all the hydros, motion control levers... list goes on... I have never seen a friction cone style components look that clean. All the ones I have ever seen are so 'effin rusted... it's a miracle they worked at all... and most of the ones I have seen that did work... didn't work very well. WD-40... minimum I can do. @8ntruck @peter lena... like you guys said... everything but the cone... and like Jeff said... even if you spray the cone... no WD-40 or anything else is going to stay put with the friction of the cone. The friction itself will likely keep the cone from rusting at the collar and keeping in mind that that is the only part actually causing friction in the system... all around and those other components... oh hell yeah... they gonna get some lube... Don 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #21 Posted February 1, 2022 Hell, there are pictures all over the forum of guys with rusty-crusted MCL assemblies. Not in my possession. Don 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #22 Posted February 1, 2022 4 hours ago, pfrederi said: Well sir the manual doesn't recommend lubing it and you are in to references and citations.. what is yours for doing it??? Well, to that, we must question what "checking linkages" entails within manuals, and allowing "free movement" (i.e. full forward and reverse travel)... Rust causes binding... ...as @8ntruck indicated: 8 hours ago, 8ntruck said: Getting lubriaction on those sliding and pivoting areas of the motion control and brake linkage restored full range of motion of to the brake pedal and motion control lever. Just some things to consider... Don 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,028 #23 Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) Totally different system, but my Eaton hydro says not to lube the motion control cam. I grease mine regularly, and it is smooth and responsive. My Bronco is my only drivable Sundstrand, and the lever gets a little sticky at times. My neutral is a bit off so I may be digging into that one soon. It will get some lube. I don't think the manual had 50-60 years in mind when they were written. Same as reccomended oil types and weights, but that is another discussion. My truck has a "sealed" transmission that says that regular servicing is not required. Feel free to think I don't change the fluid in it every 60K. Edited February 1, 2022 by kpinnc 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,004 #24 Posted February 1, 2022 (edited) I'll mention that the C195 uses an Eaton, so it is a bit different than a Sunstrand. I'll also mention that the C195 is the first hydro tractor that I have owned, driven, or worked on, so I am nowhere near an expert on them. Now that the linkages have been freed up and the tractor is getting semi regular exercise, I do not expect that frequent lubrication will be needed - maybe once a season. To quote Forrest Gump: That's all I have to say about that. Edited February 1, 2022 by 8ntruck 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #25 Posted February 1, 2022 Well, considering that the manual says that the collar is "self lubricating" ...says enough... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
