Identify and explain this gearbox?

[ebinmaine 69,710]

Been mulling over some possiblities for steering on the big wheel tractor project. 

 

I got to texting back n forth with @Oldskool Mike a time or two. 

He suggested a drive reduction unit from an ice auger. 

 

My mind went into internet poking around mode for a few days. 

 

Found NEMA gearboxes and went down that wormhole. 

 

This unit popped up for sale on the flea Bay a few days ago for cheap so I bought it just to look at it. 

 

See my finger for size reference. 

10:1 ratio. 

 

I'm thinking of eliminating the gears entirely and using this or something similar with 2 or 3 u-joints.  

 

Thoughts comments questions suggestions....

 

 

 

 

[wallfish 17,193]

I'm think'n 10:1 should be just about right. You can adjust some by the length from the holes to the shaft where the tie rods are attached. You would be limited moving the holes to close to the shaft because you always want full motion of the spindles left and right but the further the holes are from the shaft, the less amount of rotation of the shaft is required.  Adjust it to be about 3-4 full turns of the wheel . Less for a quicker response steering

Rotation of the output is the same as the input?

 

[8ntruck 7,256]

My guess is that is a reduction box to go onto a hydraulic motor.  Slows the output speed and increases output torque.

 

Go to the Parker web site and look up the part numbers.  They probably come in a variety of ratios.

 

Ought to work well for a steering reduction box.  

 

I didn't know that Parker made such a thing.

[ebinmaine 69,710]

6 hours ago, wallfish said:

Rotation of the output is the same as the input?

Yessir. 

 

Not quite following what you mean by setting up and adjustment...

 

 

My initial thought process was to set this box in the frame bracketed about where the OE steering gear set is, on a (40⁰?) upward angle between the lower and upper steering shafts. 

I'd have u-joints with appropriate couplings. 

3/4" ID heim joints to support the shafts. 

3/4" ID locking collars to keep things in place. 

 

[ri702bill 8,738]

6 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Slows the output speed and increases output torque

These are used with either servo or stepper motors and are designed to bolt directly to the output face (NEMA gave it away for me - had to spec plenty over the years.)

The input will NOT tolerate misalignment, your input shaft must have two rugged fixed bearings - look up the Parker specs online.

Bill

Edited January 26, 2022 by ri702bill

[ebinmaine 69,710]

40 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

The input will NOT tolerate misalignment, your input shaft must have two rugged fixed bearings

 

 

That makes sense considering the intended usage and the fact that it would normally be bolted directly to something.

 

 

What kind of torque can these things tolerate?

 

[ri702bill 8,738]

59 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

look up the Parker specs online.

Eric - they are all different - generally the larger the frame, the higher the torque. These have 1 or 2 planetary gearsets in them, a miniature version of the works inside a 3-speed automatic car transmission.

Bill

[Oldskool 6,660]

Looks like a nice little unit. Are there any mounting holes on the output end?

[ebinmaine 69,710]

7 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Looks like a nice little unit. Are there any mounting holes on the output end?

Yes. 

 

((Corrected. See post 23..))

 

Edited January 26, 2022 by ebinmaine

[8ntruck 7,256]

4 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Looks like a nice little unit. Are there any mounting holes on the output end?

Might be options or adaptors for mounts.  Look up the Parker web site and see.

 

This is the industrial version of planetary gearboxes the kids on the robotics team are using for various functions in the robot.  In past years, we have used a three stage gearbox to drive an external gear reduction on a lifting mechanism on the robot.  When a limit switch wasn't made at the end of the lift, the lifting arm stopped,  but the drivetratn didn't.  It ended up twisting an aluminium 1/2" hex shaft about 60 degrees before they got it shut down.  This was with a 775 sized 12v motor.

[Bill D 2,050]

Too bad you're not using a hydro trans on that project.  I have a friend with an Ariens GT19 with full hydraulic steering.  Absolutely effortless to steer.  Transmission in that tractor is a Sunstrand.  Maybe rig up something using a power steering pump?  Just a thought.

[wallfish 17,193]

10 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Not quite following what you mean by setting up and adjustment...

 The further the tie rods are connected from the shaft the faster it will steer. The drawing isn't to measurement scale as the location of the holes still need to keep your wheels aligned properly.

 

[ebinmaine 69,710]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

 The further the tie rods are connected from the shaft the faster it will steer. The drawing isn't to measurement scale as the location of the holes still need to keep your wheels aligned properly.

 

 

I've already got that part set. I don't have any pictures handy. There's an extension welded to the bottom of the Wheel Horse steering flag. I have the custom oversized tie rods attached to the bottom of that.

 

Steering distance and angle side to side seems to have accidentally worked out fairly well.

 

 

[ebinmaine 69,710]

40 minutes ago, Bill D said:

Too bad you're not using a hydro trans on that project.  I have a friend with an Ariens GT19 with full hydraulic steering.  Absolutely effortless to steer.  Transmission in that tractor is a Sunstrand.  Maybe rig up something using a power steering pump?  Just a thought.

On this particular project I'm trying to use mechanical means with no assistance so I won't be using fluid powered steering. I have, however, put it under serious consideration for others.

The one that comes to mind right away is whatever tractor will be carrying the Mckissick chipper around most of the time. That thing is HEAVY.

[Snoopy11 5,717]

Eric... you are outsmarting me...

 

 

 

I follow.

 

 

Don

Edited January 26, 2022 by Snoopy11

[ebinmaine 69,710]

23 minutes ago, wallfish said:

 The further the tie rods are connected from the shaft the faster it will steer. The drawing isn't to measurement scale as the location of the holes still need to keep your wheels aligned properly.

 

 

 

What I'm hoping to do with this gearbox or something similar to it, is to replace the steering fan gear, it's matching bevel gear, and the pillow block, entirely.

 

I  ~think~  that the fan gear rotates somewhere in the neighborhood of ¼ turn, total.

 

So if I adapt this 10:1 gearbox in it's place I should go from 0.25 turns to 2.5 turns, lock to lock.

 

I  ~think~  that the stock original steering was something in the neighborhood of one full turn of the steering wheel, lock to lock.

So obviously changing that from 1 turn up to 2.5 turns would be a huge improvement in ease of movement because I would be dividing my effort by more than half.

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

Let me ask a question, then I will shut up and slip slowly back into the shadows.

 

SO... what you are trying to create is... power steering...?

 

Don

[ebinmaine 69,710]

6 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

Let me ask a question, then I will shut up and slip slowly back into the shadows.

 

SO... what you are trying to create is... power steering...?

 

Don

 

Close but not quite. What I'm trying to create is gear reduced steering which is completely manual and not power assisted.

 

 

If I can get this to work out correctly I would do a similar replacement on other tractors as well.

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

gear reduced steering

So... with your idea... turning the steering wheel a certain amount with the device... reduces the physical amount that you have to turn the steering wheel to get the turn radius that you want?

 

I LIKE IT!!!

 

Don

[ebinmaine 69,710]

3 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

So... with your idea... turning the steering wheel a certain amount with the device... reduces the physical amount that you have to turn the steering wheel to get the turn radius that you want...

 

 

It increases the amount of turns but it decreases the effort

[Snoopy11 5,717]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

It increases the amount of turns but it decreases the effort

Yep, you said it in English...

 

Don

[ebinmaine 69,710]

One of the few places that I think the older Horses could have been built a little differently is the gears that were used in the pillow block for the steering system. Even new, there's too much lash in there for my tastes.

 

Add to that the half dozen or more other pivot and attachment points in the steering system as a whole and even a tractor in good condition can have a steering wheel that moves back and forth a half inch or more without having any effect on where the tractor is pointed.

 

Add to the above, the extra length and weight of my big wheel tractor project and then go from a 14' steering wheel up to a 20" diameter. 

 

I think it's a very reasonable expectation that the steering wheel would be fully capable of going back and forth 1½" - 2" without moving the front tires so much as a hair's width.

 

That's what I'm trying to eliminate.

 

I could probably do it with a gearbox that is 4:1 or 6:1 ratio but I figure why not see if I can make it a little easier...

[ebinmaine 69,710]

7 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Looks like a nice little unit. Are there any mounting holes on the output end?

There are threaded holes on the input end and there are through holes on the output end.

 

 

[Snoopy11 5,717]

22 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

 

'Zat BBT in the background???

 

 

Don

[Oldskool 6,660]

23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

There are threaded holes on the input end and there are through holes on the output end.

 

Is that slot for a shear pin of sorts?