Snoopy11 5,714 #26 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: The C100 runs great, this wasnt a complaint...just, you dont realize what muffler paint goes through until you really see the hot spots on the muffler...im extremely happy with this K241. Even the M12...runs well, just knocks. Buddy... maybe I haven't said it plain enough... that 241 and M12 looks and sounds like hell... All of us here are trying to let you know that... but if you are satisfied with your engines, then that is fine. BUT... when you post videos of your engines, and engine builders see and say... Check out my Tube channel if you want to hear some engines running well... and those just TOUCH on what I have done... Don Edited January 21, 2022 by Snoopy11 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #27 Posted January 21, 2022 34 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: K301 with this style muffler at night and run it in...kill all the lights, your mufflers glow the same. I actually did that two nights ago because I was curious... and no, it didn't glow, and it didn't backfire. It has never backfired. And it rattles. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #28 Posted January 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: I actually did that two nights ago because I was curious... and no, it didn't glow, and it didn't backfire. It has never backfired. And it rattles. You should fix that rattle...its careless to senslessly run it if it makes any noise outside of a gentle hum. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #29 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: You should fix that rattle...its careless to senslessly run it if it makes any noise outside of a gentle hum. I know. I will. At this point it's not my main worker, that's my 175. I'm still doing lots of other stuff first, getting the 'small stuff' out of the way. There's only seven Saturdays in a week! Who was it said; "I'm just gonna run it anyway" (or something to that effect) in another thread ? 6 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: gentle hum That's a pretty funny description of the sound a K301 makes. Those things rumble like a Fat Boy. Edited January 21, 2022 by Jeff-C175 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #30 Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: You should fix that rattle...its careless to senslessly run it if it makes any noise outside of a gentle hum. At least Jeff is trying to fix his... and he has never said that he will just let it KNOCK... Don Edited January 21, 2022 by Snoopy11 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #31 Posted January 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Snoopy11 said: never said that he will just let it rattle I think I might have... can't remember! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #32 Posted January 21, 2022 Just now, Jeff-C175 said: I think I might have... can't remember! Your "rattle" is not a knock... And... saying something in a thread when you are trying to figure out what is wrong is different than making a thread that proclaims to the world that you don't give a royal flip... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #33 Posted January 21, 2022 55 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: Buddy... maybe I haven't said it plain enough... that 241 and M12 looks and sounds like hell... All of us here are trying to let you know that... but if you are satisfied with your engines, then that is fine. BUT... when you post videos of your engines, and engine builders see and say... Check out my Tube channel if you want to hear some engines running well... and those just TOUCH on what I have done... Don All hear is a belt slapping the guard. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #34 Posted January 21, 2022 I pulled these out of a 25hp Briggs Pro in a Z654 Deere at 63X hours yesterday...told the guy it was hurt, needs a refresh immediately...he said "put plugs in it...ill run it til it vents the block". Both plugs looked the same and she was down on power badly. These plugs only had about 15 hours on them according to him. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #35 Posted January 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: All hear is a belt slapping the guard. Pretty loud rapping at low rpm and at shutdown... maybe comes across wrong in video... Still sounds a bit like valves are out of adjustment... have you checked the lash lately... Doesn't sound right to me... sorry... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #36 Posted January 21, 2022 40 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: Pretty loud rapping at low rpm and at shutdown... maybe comes across wrong in video... Still sounds a bit like valves are out of adjustment... have you checked the lash lately... Doesn't sound right to me... sorry... Don Here is with the clutch pushed in...the belt slaps the cover in neutral, feels like a weak spring but it never seems to slip and the belt is correct albeit dated. This engine hasnt been opened at all as far as I know as the 2nd owner. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kpinnc 12,111 #37 Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) I think some Kohlers just make excessive noise- especially the valvetrain. 10 horse usually less than higher hp, but still. I'm not arguing against making efforts to clear it up, but rather just making an observation. Even with no obvious issues, and with everything in spec, some just have some klack to them. My Mag10 runs like a top. Heard a couple smooth 12hp too, but I have a couple engines that tick to what I think at least is too much. The K321 on pop's Charger build I just did had a valve tick that got worse when I adjusted the valves to spec. Much more noticable when engine was cold, seemed to subside after running for 15-20 mins. Everything in that engine was well within spec limits. Maybe my engine instincts are crap, and I just don't know it. I still think the exhaust valve spring had relaxed a bit. Nothing else I could think of. Speaking of which, I've just about hyped myself up to pull the Bronco's balance gears this weekend. Hopefully my back survives the process! Edited January 22, 2022 by kpinnc 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #38 Posted January 22, 2022 8 hours ago, kpinnc said: I think some Kohlers just make excessive noise- especially the valvetrain. 10 horse usually less than higher hp, but still. I'm not arguing against making efforts to clear it up, but rather just making an observation. Even with no obvious issues, and with everything in spec, some just have some klack to them. My Mag10 runs like a top. Heard a couple smooth 12hp too, but I have a couple engines that tick to what I think at least is too much. The K321 on pop's Charger build I just did had a valve tick that got worse when I adjusted the valves to spec. Much more noticable when engine was cold, seemed to subside after running for 15-20 mins. Everything in that engine was well within spec limits. Maybe my engine instincts are crap, and I just don't know it. I still think the exhaust valve spring had relaxed a bit. Nothing else I could think of. Speaking of which, I've just about hyped myself up to pull the Bronco's balance gears this weekend. Hopefully my back survives the process! Ive had the old kohlers and old iron briggs come in just absolutely hammering, you cover your groin and back away..and the owners look confused "its sounded like that for years"... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lynnmor 7,309 #39 Posted January 22, 2022 18 hours ago, RED-Z06 said: I pulled these out of a 25hp Briggs Pro in a Z654 Deere at 63X hours yesterday...told the guy it was hurt, needs a refresh immediately...he said "put plugs in it...ill run it til it vents the block". Both plugs looked the same and she was down on power badly. These plugs only had about 15 hours on them according to him. Any chance that is one of the many Briggs that had the stupid wide spacing between head bolts? Those would blow between the cylinder and the opening for the push rods, causing extreme oil consumption Cheap, easy fix most of the time. As always, a compression test is needed.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #40 Posted January 22, 2022 8 minutes ago, lynnmor said: Any chance that is one of the many Briggs that had the stupid wide spacing between head bolts? Those would blow between the cylinder and the opening for the push rods, causing extreme oil consumption Cheap, easy fix most of the time. As always, a compression test is needed.. Nah, Vtwin, "professional" model with the large canister filter. Somehow it ate alot of dust. I replace alot of head gaskets on the briggs singles, always at the push rod galley. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #41 Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, RED-Z06 said: Ive had the old kohlers and old iron briggs come in just absolutely hammering, you cover your groin and back away..and the owners look confused "its sounded like that for years"... And I've had old Kohlers, Briggs, Kawasaki, Troy, Massimo, Tillotson, Duromax, Generac, Honda, Craftsman, champion, etc. etc. etc.(S) that... when they left my shop... purrrrrrrrrrrrrred... I'm not satisfied with... so-so... and I won't stop until it is running properly... no rattles, no knocks... no hunting, surging, popping, slapping, rapping... etc. Try harder. Only thing I won't work on... Tecumseh... just because of parts availability and cost. I will always advocate for fixing engines and making them run better. People who divert, ignore mechanical questions, and choose to remain static... are not looking for help... they are looking for affirmation to do what they already plan to do... nothing. I will not affirm doing the wrong thing... only thing I can say is: Don 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #42 Posted January 22, 2022 3 hours ago, Snoopy11 said: And I've had old Kohlers, Briggs, Kawasaki, Troy, Massimo, Tillotson, Duromax, Generac, Honda, Craftsman, champion, etc. etc. etc.(S) that... when they left my shop... purrrrrrrrrrrrrred... I'm not satisfied with... so-so... and I won't stop until it is running properly... no rattles, no knocks... no hunting, surging, popping, slapping, rapping... etc. Try harder. Only thing I won't work on... Tecumseh... just because of parts availability and cost. I will always advocate for fixing engines and making them run better. People who divert, ignore mechanical questions, and choose to remain static... are not looking for help... they are looking for affirmation to do what they already plan to do... nothing. I will not affirm doing the wrong thing... only thing I can say is: Don Im not going to put free work into a customers mower, if it knocks and they dont want to fix it...it leaves knocking. If something comes in with a definite safety issue such as a fuel leak, or inop safety switches, ill address that...if they dont want it fixed i refuse to repair any part of it and they have 30 days to remove it from the property. I mean, in 18 years ive been warranty certified or master tech certified by, pretty much everyone...even the ones that no longer exist as we knew them (looking at you Tecumseh, Gardenway)...its not usually or often a lack of will or skill to fix something correctly...its the economics, the point of diminishing returns. Putting good money after bad. If a new M12 crank was 150..175, id probably grab one and put it in...but at 600 dollars, its just not feasible. Ive had mixed luck with turning small engine cranks, the hardening tends to be less than consistent and if the .010 under gets into unhardened, or at least gets up to unhardened steel, you're going to have a mess in short order. Find a used one...maybe the pto is right..maybe not, maybe its worn..maybe not. If this were a show tractor or at least a tractor that qualified as something more than a parts donor.. it would be easier to justify putting money into it. Id drop $1000 on the Onan in my 416 in a heartbeat. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #43 Posted January 22, 2022 47 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: 150..175 [$] 50 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: 600 dollars, [is] just not feasible Maybe you just need to buy Predator engine replacements then, and call it a day... All I know... is as I watch your videos and listen to those engines... I am questioning their integrity... (i.e. when they are going to come apart...) @Snoopy11 be like: 52 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: in 18 years ive been warranty certified or master tech certified by, pretty much everyone If that was true... why do you ignore every technical/mechanical question I ask? The answers to my questions should come easy... I am not one to tell people what to do... but you post on this forum... and you get feedback... most of which... you ignore. All I want to do is help... but you keep diverting. It isn't my intent to make anyone feel bad... or embarrassed... but... Don 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #44 Posted January 22, 2022 1 hour ago, RED-Z06 said: If a new M12 crank was 150..175, id probably grab one and put it in Here... you indicate/admit that you need a new crankshaft... 'nuff said... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #45 Posted January 22, 2022 13 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said: Here... you indicate/admit that you need a new crankshaft... 'nuff said... Don I dont think it does, everyone here does, its not coming back apart unless it does it on its own...which may happen, i took it a mile up the road today and saw a friend...about 2 hours wide open, it runs fine...almost time to change the oil out for synthetic. It sounds worse on camera with "sound zoom" than in real life. If i use this phone on my car engine you'd swear the engine had solid lifters and big cam with exhaust leaks but, its not...the phone just picks up everything and amplifies it. I do install quite a few predators for people that want them, and the Briggs/Kohler honda clones, they lack the torque on an older tractor for me, id like to find an Onan and put on it, or a 9ish hp diesel like a Hatz. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #46 Posted January 22, 2022 2 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: I do install quite a few predators for people that want them, and the Briggs/Kohler honda clones, they lack the torque on an older tractor for me, id like to find an Onan and put on it, or a 9ish hp diesel like a Hatz. By all means, that sounds like a good idea. I have been looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Cylinder-Cooling-Agricultural-Machinery/dp/B088D4Z491/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1XQO68LCYJJVZ&keywords=diesel+engine&qid=1642892529&sprefix=diese%2Caps%2C794&sr=8-6 All I am saying... don't pretend... or ask us to pretend that nothing is wrong when multiple people on the site indicate a potential issue. You do what you want with the information you have. 4 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: everyone here does Most people's engines on the Square don't have KNOCKS... take a look around... listen to some guys' engines... they don't sound like yours. Some have rattles and other odd sounds... not KNOCKS Or backfires from hell... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #47 Posted January 22, 2022 1 minute ago, Snoopy11 said: By all means, that sounds like a good idea. I have been looking at this: https://www.amazon.com/Diesel-Cylinder-Cooling-Agricultural-Machinery/dp/B088D4Z491/ref=sr_1_6?crid=1XQO68LCYJJVZ&keywords=diesel+engine&qid=1642892529&sprefix=diese%2Caps%2C794&sr=8-6 All I am saying... don't pretend... or ask us to pretend that nothing is wrong when multiple people on the site indicate a potential issue. You do what you want with the information you have. Most people's engines on the Square don't have KNOCKS... take a look around... listen to some guys' engines... they don't sound like yours. Some have rattles and other odd sounds... not KNOCKS Or backfires from hell... Don Not a ChiCom copy, a real Hatz, or even a Kubota, i think Linamar made them too. My K241 doesn't knock, if you think it does i can only suggest https://www.miracle-ear.com/hearing-aids/features-benefits/discreet be on your bookmark list because you need them. The M12 sounds rough, on the phone it sounds like its about to come apart, in real life that sound you hear is more of a loose tin sound...but its there, is it bad balance gears, rod slop, bad main bearing? Not sure. It was fun getting back going when it had been cobbled on and abandoned 16+ years ago. But when you measure it all to be within spec, actually took it to a friends shop (when i picked up a deere 317 project) because he had more precise measuring devices than myself, and it measures within running tolerances...its hard to throw it at the crank being bad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #48 Posted January 22, 2022 6 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: Not a ChiCom copy, a real Hatz, or even a Kubota, i think Linamar made them too. Sorry, I thought you wanted something cheap... or... in your words "feasible" 8 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: My K241 doesn't knock No, it does other... worrisome things... 8 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: The M12 sounds rough Damnn right it does. I don't need hearing aids for that... Don 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RED-Z06 2,221 #49 Posted January 22, 2022 Just now, Snoopy11 said: No, it does other... worrisome things... If you think shutting off an older hot engine at higher speeds and getting backfires is worrisome you're probably too wet around the ears to give advice on them...stick to chicom toys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopy11 5,714 #50 Posted January 23, 2022 19 minutes ago, RED-Z06 said: you're probably too wet around the ears to give advice Sounds like you are getting pretty personal there Red. Try harder. Maybe you should do a little research on why your engine is backfiring... as... this isn't the first time that this issue has been encountered on the Square. Don Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
