K161S Brass Governor Nut Issue

[ri702bill 8,328]

Has anyone run into this before? I had picked up this complete low hour 702 about 12 years ago - put it in the basement where it sat until now. The previous owner did a couple of hacked up "modifications" to it early on - I had it running and noticed the throttle cable hookup bypassed the governor completely. There was a bent bracket attached to the front head bolt to mount the cable sheath and this rocket scientist bent the sheetmetal back on the cooling tin - some people should be slapped for this type of "fix". Same person who cut the hood to clear the end of the long 3/8" bolt he installed backwards to mount the S/G.

OK - here seems to be the reason the brass nut it the problem - I removed the engine to repurpose it on Dad's 702 this spring and removed the tin - the original governor arm was still there, loose, but there.

I attempted to reinstall it, but the nut would not capture it - the gap was too wide by 1/16". If I tighten the nut until it seats in the hole, I cannot rotate the shaft. 

Is it OK to remove .060 - .062 material from the face of the nut to allow it to pinch the arm against the block and still allow the shaft to rotate freely?? Perhaps the engine guys like @prondzy or @richmondred01 can offer their advise?

Bill 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by ri702bill

[richmondred01 2,237]

The governor rod may not be the correct one or it may have come out hole affixed in the block. 

[WHX?? 48,828]

Thats really odd Bill. You sure the shaft is back seated in the socket on the inside  and the flag on the arm is resting properly on the flyweight gear? Yeah I know impossible to see without pulling the pan but that has to be what's keeping the nut from pinching the arm and from seating. Looks like the motor is upside down on the bench So I would pull the pan to make sure everything looks good in there. 

 

Don't remember what HP motor but some I have worked on had a very small clip ring on the shaft to keep it from being pulled out to far. Don't know if that has any bearing on your problem or not. 

[WHX?? 48,828]

3 minutes ago, richmondred01 said:

may have come out hole affixed in the block. 

Or something lodged in the hole keeping it from going in all the way? Just thinkin out loud here. 

[richmondred01 2,237]

[richmondred01 2,237]

[richmondred01 2,237]

 

 

my guess is the rod isn’t seated in the block. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by richmondred01

[Achto 27,601]

43 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

s it OK to remove .060 - .062 material from the face of the nut to allow it to pinch the arm against the block and still allow the shaft to rotate freely??

 

Wouldn't it be easier to add a washer to take up the gap and allow the nut to tighten the bracket?

[WHX?? 48,828]

I wouldn't do anything not reversible till I got to the root of the issue. 

[ri702bill 8,328]

I tried that - you need a 1/2" ID washer to get over the threads, but it is swimming on the 3/8" diameter where the arm lives.

I thought about cutting a 3/8" ID washer into a C shape - I thought chucking the nut up in the lathe was a better choice.

Bill

[ri702bill 8,328]

I removed the pan to clean out 60 years of gunk inside - the flag appears to be centered on the governor gear too.

Bill

[WHX?? 48,828]

Can you see what binds up the arm when the nut is threaded all the way in then? Arm not bent is it? 

[squonk 41,150]

Without the throttle arm in place the nut will bottom out on the little washer thingy on the gov. shaft preventing the shaft from turning.

[WHX?? 48,828]

Yah Squonky but you can see it's in place along with two feelers in his first pic. 

1 hour ago, WHX?? said:

a very small clip ring on the shaft to keep it from being pulled out to far.

 

12 minutes ago, squonk said:

little washer thingy on the gov. shaft

Thats what I was saying, parts manual does not show it but it shows a spacer # H which I have no idea what is for. 

I have this whole manual you need it Bill.

[Achto 27,601]

47 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

I thought about cutting a 3/8" ID washer into a C shape

 

Should not matter if a 1/2" washer swims. It will be fine once you tighten it.

 

How about a body shim?

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_6653230?r-src=SSE:PDP&ppid=BK_6653231&ir=3&tps=4

Edited January 20, 2022 by Achto

[richmondred01 2,237]

[ri702bill 8,328]

OK - did a bit more investigation and this time I used the good eye! Just like @richmondred01's picture, there IS either a press fit full circle disc or snap ring there - that is what the brass nut is seating against causing the bind - the shaft is not bent. The flag tab IS centered inline with the pin (difficult to see, almost impossible to get a clear picture of).

Seems that around that disc or ring there is a soft fiber "seal" - makes sense to help keep the splashed oil from migrating out the hole in the nut .....

@WHX?? - I have that Manual also - is part R2 the C shaped washer I described earlier to back up the R1 arm?

[squonk 41,150]

5 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

OK - did a bit more investigation and this time I used the good eye! Just like @richmondred01's picture, there IS either a press fit full circle disc or snap ring there - that is what the brass nut is seating against causing the bind - the shaft is not bent. The flag tab IS centered inline with the pin (difficult to see, almost impossible to get a clear picture of).

Seems that around that disc or ring there is a soft fiber "seal" - makes sense to help keep the splashed oil from migrating out the hole in the nut .....

@WHX?? - I have that Manual also - is part R2 the C shaped washer I described earlier to back up the R1 arm?

Could you see if the shaft was in the hole at the opposite end of shaft?

[ri702bill 8,328]

Yes it is.

[squonk 41,150]

I think your missing the throttle disc.

 

[squonk 41,150]

@ri702bill did you find the disc part # M in the diagram? 

Edited January 20, 2022 by squonk

[ri702bill 8,328]

@squonk - yes I did - I have it and it is not part of the issue - it fits freely on its intended diameter on the brass nut.

[WHX?? 48,828]

So that part R2 is the C clip ....makes sense.   It should be about 1/16 from the end of the nut once the nut is seated against R1.

Never dawned on me I'm have a 701 motor on the bench now so I looked with my bad eye  and that's about what the end play was with the nut seated against R1. 

 

Hey Squonky yer missing yer flag ...here's a replacement .... 

[squonk 41,150]

49 minutes ago, ri702bill said:

@squonk - yes I did - I have it and it is not part of the issue - it fits freely on its intended diameter on the brass nut.

But it takes up the space to hold the other bracket. Did you try it?

[squonk 41,150]

46 minutes ago, WHX?? said:

 

 

Hey Squonky yer missing yer flag ...here's a replacement .... 

That's the broken one I took out.