Just another parts pile build

[ebinmaine 67,594]

1 minute ago, Oldskool said:

I can't imagine I couldn't. Maybe it's not as straight forward as it seems, but seems simple enough.

I have one I would like to shorten by about 4in.

Never messed with hydraulics so I've never seen one apart. 

 

[oliver2-44 9,759]

2 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Could anyone tell me if a cylinder like this can be easily shortened? I'm thinking by cutting the cylinder sleeve and the outer end of the piston shaft. Then shorten and retread the 4 bolts.

40 years ago at the tractor shop we modified-shortened those type cylinders. When they got a used piece of equipment and the bottom of the cylinder was pitted we shortened it to use on something else. 

[kpinnc 12,085]

You can shorten the housing but won't the ram plunger be the same length?

 

Apologies, I'm confused at what you are going for.

[ebinmaine 67,594]

1 hour ago, kpinnc said:

You can shorten the housing but won't the ram plunger be the same length?

 

Apologies, I'm confused at what you are going for.

I'd be willing to bet Mike's wanting to shorten both. 

[sjoemie himself 3,068]

If you have a lathe this should be pretty straight forward. Cut the tube to length and cut the same amount out of the piston rod and the threaded rods.

It looks like the eye on the piston rod is clamped but Imagine it's threaded aswell so you would have to re-thread that. Again, pretty do-able with a lathe. 

On YT look for Abom79, he has some great videos on making and modifying cylinders like this.

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

5 hours ago, kpinnc said:

You can shorten the housing but won't the ram plunger be the same length?

 

Apologies, I'm confused at what you are going for.

As Eric said above, I'm looking to shorten the whole thing. The clevis is clamped to the ram shaft. I would just shorten that as well then reinstall the clevis.

[Stormin 9,981]

14 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Could anyone tell me if a cylinder like this can be easily shortened? I'm thinking by cutting the cylinder sleeve and the outer end of the piston shaft. Then shorten and retread the 4 bolts.

 

In a word. YES! And for a man with your capabilities not a problem. 

[8ntruck 7,016]

15 hours ago, Oldskool said:

Could anyone tell me if a cylinder like this can be easily shortened? I'm thinking by cutting the cylinder sleeve and the outer end of the piston shaft. Then shorten and retread the 4 bolts.

Yup.  The rod end and clevis end caps are standard.  Cut the cylinder tube and tie bolts and you will have a shorter stroke cylinder.  If you don't shorten the rod, it will stick out some when retracted.

[Oldskool 6,644]

After such a good start things have kinda come to a temporary stop.

 

Parts and info collection will still carry on.

I would like to put a PTO clutch on this build in hopes of having some hydraulics for various tasks.

 

To start with its probably going to require a custom pulley of sorts for the transmission drive belt. This is where the questions begin. I have alot of the linkages and im sure I will have to fab a few as well.

I have these parts indicated in the pic. What am I missing as far as the clutch itself goes?

Also how much shaft should be sticking out past the pulley for this to be functional?

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,594]

To attach it to the engine you just need four bolts. As far as the outer stuff, you're going to need a bracket to hold the hoop top and bottom, the hoop itself, and the clip that holds it to the side of the engine.

 

I can get better pictures and measurements tomorrow if nobody answers before then. 

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

5 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

To attach it to the engine you just need four bolts. As far as the outer stuff, you're going to need a bracket to hold the hoop top and bottom, the hoop itself, and the clip that holds it to the side of the engine.

 

I can get better pictures and measurements tomorrow if nobody answers before then. 

 

Thanks Eric.

So the four bolts would be to attach to the pulley?

I believe I have all the outer stuff. Upper lower brackets, hoop,linkage,handle.

 

What's the clip you mentioned?

[Handy Don 12,235]

The inner PTO plate bolts to a WH drive pulley (different diameters for gear and hydro drives) that is keyed and set screwed to the shaft. That will take up some of the shaft length. The two-hole crescents are spacers between pulley and plate.

One quick thing to check is that the diameter of the engine shaft and the inner race of the PTO pulley cone are the same -- 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,235]

13 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

What's the clip you mentioned?

The outer "stub" on the PTO cone is a shaft that is on the inner race of the thrust bearing. That stub has a hole through it. The "clip", which is part to the bow (which you say you have) straddles the stub and is secured with a "D-clip" to the stub. The bow's movement (axial to the engine shaft) applies the pressure to the stub/thrust bearing/PTO cone against the engine-powered PTO plate.

 

On a WH, the bottom of the hoop is typically in a hole in a bracket or the engine mounting plate. On the top it is usually on an arm that is in turn on an engine-mounted bracket. The arm is moved via a linkage to the PTO actuator lever.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Handy Don

[Oldskool 6,644]

10 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

(different diameters for gear and hydro drives) 

 

One quick thing to check is the diameter of the engine shaft and the inner race of the pro pulley cone are the same -- 

What would be a stock size for the engine pulley running the 8 speed?

 

I did check the diameters. They are the same.

The crank shaft on this is short so I'm hoping there is enough for the clutch.

Do you know how much shaft the clutch requires?

[Handy Don 12,235]

7 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

Do you know how much shaft the clutch requires?

I don't. Never occurred to me to measure when I had the PTO off for cleaning servicing. I'd guess it was about 2" (it has to clear the innermost end of the thrust stub shaft, right?). You can estimate by checking using a caliper to measure from the outermost (away from the engine) lip of the main PTO bearing race to the plane of the clutch material facing and then add the depth of the engine-pulley-mounted plate.

 

Hoping someone here has their's apart and can measure the exposed shaft left after the drive pulley is mounted and post some pictures.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Handy Don

[Oldskool 6,644]

Thanks Don @Handy Don .  I think I will only have about an inch of shaft for that clutch to ride on.

[ebinmaine 67,594]

8 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

Thanks Don @Handy Don .  I think I will only have about an inch of shaft for that clutch to ride on.

There's an inner and outer bearing. 

You may be scant on space.  

Perhaps an electric clutch would be feasible if a manual one can't be used.  

[oliver2-44 9,759]

32 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

 I think I will only have about an inch of shaft for that clutch to ride on.

Does the end of the shaft have a tapped hole? If so you could bolt on an extension, then ship the PTO inner race over it which would reinforce it some.

[Oldskool 6,644]

23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

There's an inner and outer bearing. 

You may be scant on space.  

Perhaps an electric clutch would be feasible if a manual one can't be used.  

That is a possibility but the 1-1/8 electric clutches aren't cheap at all.

[Oldskool 6,644]

4 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Does the end of the shaft have a tapped hole? If so you could bolt on an extension, then ship the PTO inner race over it which would reinforce it some.

I don't think it is tapped. I sure could change that real easily.

Depending on how the pulley falls when made is a big factor for residual length. This engine ran a water pump originally so the shaft is not only on the short side but also has an integral shoulder an inch out from the case along with the shaft being externally threaded approx 1" of the outer end.

[ebinmaine 67,594]

10 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Does the end of the shaft have a tapped hole? If so you could bolt on an extension, then ship the PTO inner race over it which would reinforce it some.

 

I like the idea of this possibility. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Oldskool said:

That is a possibility but the 1-1/8 electric clutches aren't cheap at all.

 

You got that right.

 

I don't think I've got anything like that kickin around but I'll take a look

[Oldskool 6,644]

This is what I'm working with.

 

This is what I may have after a pulley is installed 

[Handy Don 12,235]

Yeah, that does look tight and the threads aren't helping. 

Way over my pay grade to think about extending a crankshaft!

[wallfish 17,011]

Is that engine going to spec a bearing for the shaft for the side load on it?

I should have my PTO off this weekend to replace the clutch plate so I'll get you some pics.

 

 

[Oldskool 6,644]

1 hour ago, wallfish said:

Is that engine going to spec a bearing for the shaft for the side load on it?

I should have my PTO off this weekend to replace the clutch plate so I'll get you some pics.

 

 

I was figuring it probably would do to the size of the cast iron vane it had screwed on it. When I removed the vane there wasn't any other supports for it.

 

I could be guessing wrong.

Besides wouldn't the trans drive belt kind of equal that out.?

I guess with there being a belt I didn't really think it over as much as I would if it was chain drive.