607 transmission pops out of gear with small loads

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Hi,

I have a 607 that I just rebuilt the transmission on with all new bearings and seals and the whole nine yards. Is it possible for the belt guard that mine is missing to cause the transmission to pop out of gear when it’s used in snow? Yesterday it seemed only 3rd was the problem so I thought with the heavy, wet snow it just didn’t have enough torque to get throw the snow but today it was only 25 degrees out and the snow was fluffy and light. There was some ice but that doesn’t require much power to move if you go slow. Thoughts? Ideas?

Thanks,

Andrew

[pfrederi 17,866]

Popping out of 3rd sounds like a worn 2/3 gear.  Running with out  a belt guard causes gear grinding that  probably led to the worn gear....

[Achto 27,751]

10 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

Yesterday it seemed only 3rd was the problem

 

Good chance that the internal teeth on third gear are warn. This is the most common cause for your issue. Here is a link to the only source for a new third gear.

 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/3523-3rd-gear/

[Maxwell-8 4,290]

2 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Running with out  a belt guard causes gear grinding that  probably led to the worn gear....

I always wait a sec  once I press the clutch before putting it into a diferent gear 

[WheelHorse520H 708]

4 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Popping out of 3rd sounds like a worn 2/3 gear.  Running with out  a belt guard causes gear grinding that  probably led to the worn gear....

 

3 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

Good chance that the internal teeth on third gear are warn. This is the most common cause for your issue. Here is a link to the only source for a new third gear.

 

https://wheelhorsepartsandmore.com/product/3523-3rd-gear/

I was worried that was it, but I pulled a trailer recently in 3rd with no problems and when it was apart I inspected all gears because I knew the belt guard was an issue.

 

2 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

I always wait a sec  once I press the clutch before putting it into a diferent gear 

I watch the belt until it stops and then shift quick because as soon as it gets into neutral the belt spins very slowly. It seems only the snow causes problems, because on Thursday I drove it in all gears no issue. Could it have worn that quickly? I appreciate the quick responses guys, thanks.

[Achto 27,751]

7 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I inspected all gears

 

On a tranny that I rebuilt I inspected 3rd gear as well. There was only slight rounding on the internal teeth, didn't think it looked bad. Put it back together and it would pop out of 3rd any time that I put load on the tranny. Replaced 3rd, notice slight wear on the input shaft gear as well so I replaced it also. Been a happy camper ever since.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Achto

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Just now, Achto said:

 

On a tranny that I rebuilt I inspected 3rd gear as well. There was only slight rounding on the internal teeth, didn't think it looked bad. Put it back together and it would pop out of 3rd any time that I put load on the tranny. Replaced 3rd, notice slight wear on the input shaft gear as well so I replaced it as well. Been a happy camper ever since.

Of course… so for now it’ll be keeping it gentle until the gears can be re-inspected. I need this one on standby in the winter but maybe I’ll tear into it in the spring.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

26 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

I always wait a sec  once I press the clutch before putting it into a diferent gear 

 

21 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I watch the belt until it stops and then shift quick because as soon as it gets into neutral the belt spins very slowly

Some of you guys may have noticed that I cut a slot in my belt cover for the very reason of making sure that the belt stops.

 

AND, whether it does any good or not... I have no clue, but I always put mine in reverse before I go to a forward gear. I also notice, for some reason, when I go to reverse first, it goes into all the forward gears easier, and I never have to double clutch it.

 

 

Don

[WheelHorse520H 708]

12 minutes ago, Snoopy11 said:

 

Some of you guys may have noticed that I cut a slot in my belt cover for the very reason of making sure that the belt stops.

 

AND, whether it does any good or not... I have no clue, but I always put mine in reverse before I go to a forward gear. I also notice, for some reason, when I go to reverse first, it goes into all the forward gears easier, and I never have to double clutch it.

 

 

Don

I can’t stop the belt if it’s in neutral unless I use my boot (laces tucked away safely of course) or shut it off. I’ll try the reverse trick soon.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

15 minutes ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I can’t stop the belt if it’s in neutral

Do you have pictures of your belt guards?

 

May I see them?

 

Don

[WheelHorse520H 708]

I don’t have any current ones but I’ll take some tomorrow.

[Achto 27,751]

The belt guard will greatly detour gear damage in the future. Any grinding when going into gear means damage is being done.

[WheelHorse520H 708]

So I shouldn’t follow the saying, “if ya can’t find ‘em grind ‘em” I try to avoid it anyway I can. That’s how I found I could use my boot to stop the belt.

[pfrederi 17,866]

If you belt doesn't stop then something is amiss with your idler pulley , belt guard or tabs at front of guard  or incorrect belt and or rusty dirty pulleys...

[953 nut 55,765]

Most belt guards have a small tab built in that helps stop belt movement when the belt has slack in it.

[oliver2-44 9,848]

I agree sounds like he has a worn 2/3 gear.  A-Z tractor may have a good used one, as well as Wheelhorse Parts and More having new ones.

In addition to the worn 2/3 gear.  @Racinbob @stevasaurusOn the RJ 5003 and Suburban 5010 transmissions ya'll discussed: before disassembly with the transmission in 3rd gear to measure the in/out movement of the input shaft.  Then when reassembling to put a shim under the input gear so there is no clearance between the input shaft gear and the 2/3 gear.   Does this apply to these 3-4 speed transmissions as well

[Racinbob 11,207]

1 hour ago, oliver2-44 said:

I agree sounds like he has a worn 2/3 gear.  A-Z tractor may have a good used one, as well as Wheelhorse Parts and More having new ones.

In addition to the worn 2/3 gear.  @Racinbob @stevasaurusOn the RJ 5003 and Suburban 5010 transmissions ya'll discussed: before disassembly with the transmission in 3rd gear to measure the in/out movement of the input shaft.  Then when reassembling to put a shim under the input gear so there is no clearance between the input shaft gear and the 2/3 gear.   Does this apply to these 3-4 speed transmissions as well

Yes. You want zero in/out play with the shifter in third gear being held by the shift rail detents only. It applies to all 3 and 4 speed transmissions. 

[wallfish 17,079]

13 hours ago, WheelHorse520H said:

I can’t stop the belt if it’s in neutral unless I use my boot

That's probably the cause. Unless you're starting it in gear it's going to grind when shifting if the belt doesn't stop. Doesn't take much grinding of that 3rd gear since those 2 gears are barely engaged to begin with.

 After repairs the thing you need to do is stop that belt from engaging the engine pulley groove when the clutch pedal is pushed. The belt guard supports the belt loop to do just that but since you don't have one you can make small rods to achieve the same result.

[WheelHorse520H 708]

1 minute ago, wallfish said:

small rods

It came with some behind the engine pulley but the engine pulley was rated for less than 1 hp and I could see daylight through it so I got a new one but the rods didn’t fit behind the new pulley, hence why I use my boot.

 

3 minutes ago, wallfish said:

Unless you're starting it in gear it's going to grind when shifting if the belt doesn't stop.

I had to start it in gear since the rods were removed but as long as I shift from one gear to another fast enough nothing grinds. Could this cause excessive stress and/or wear, creating my problem? Like I said before I need it on standby over the winter but until repairs can be made should I hold the belt with my boot for every shift even if the belt has stopped? I really appreciate all the help guys, it sound like a new gear or two is in my future.

[wallfish 17,079]

Yes, especially 3rd gear. It doesn't take much to round off the edges of those gear teeth. That's what's pushing it out of gear.

A normal engine pulley for a 607 would be only 2.5 so I assume there's a larger pulley installed. Still, it should not be touching the engine block and you can slide it out on the shaft to make room for 1/8" rods.

Hold the shifter or add a bungie cord for the time being ?

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Thanks, I had been holding it previously just to be sure. I’ll get some pictures up with the set up. The new engine pulley I bought was 3 inches.

[wallfish 17,079]

Nothing wrong with a little more speed.

Adding or adjusting a belt stop at the idler pulley could help too. It only contacts the belt when the pedal is pushed and the idler moves forward pinching the belt

[WheelHorse520H 708]

Here are the photos I got this afternoon. That’s with the clutch / parking brake set. You can see on the engine the bolt holes are covered by the pulley. I wanted to keep the rods where they were but then the pulley was pulling the belt off the clutch. Could / should I put them on the frame somewhere?

[pfrederi 17,866]

What kind of engine do you have on this unit     Doesn't look like and HH-60 to me....

[WheelHorse520H 708]

56 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

What kind of engine do you have on this unit     Doesn't look like and HH-60 to me....

A 6.5 hp Greyhound single cylinder. Made for Harbor Freight Greyhound is the predecessor to the famous Predator engines. I want the HH-60 if I can find it.